What the Wall is really about

Sounds like you are well on your way

 

Something ironic about this is Mexico has a southern border too and they do everything they can to keep South Americans out, and nobody calls them bigots for it.

 

Yup. I just have to forget everything about security techniques, anticlimbing measures and simple physics, then your stupid ideas will make sense to me.

 

Yep. Or how to use a ladder to scale a wall. LOL

 

A wall designed to stop the use of ladders, yes.

 

If the number of undocumented aliens isn't increasing, then it's ridiculous to tax us tens of billions of dollars for a wall meant to keep the number of undocumented aliens from increasing!!

South Park is a comedy. You're supposed to be able to hear what they say and notice that it is HILARIOUS!

 

I know. A special magical wall. LOL

 

Not magic, science and engineering

 

I don't think it was meant as a joke guy.

 

And, airplanes, I presume.

 

It's safe to say that South Park is not a hard news source.

They have an episode on the military invasion of Canada, too.

 

It is hilarious that some people want to use the most expensive and least effective meausre to handle what is essentially net zero illegal immigration.

 

As stated, that is not the purpose.

 

Didn't say it was a news source, but it does drop wisdom from time to time.

 

It's not expensive and I'd bet my collection of vintage video games that it will be effective af

 

To recap the leftist arguments so far:

Money: it's not expensive

Effectiveness: it will do its job

Some illegals don't cross in a way that the wall will stop: ok, so what?

Anything else?

 

Exhobitantly expensive and will do almost nothing to solve the problem. A conservatives dream

 

Heh at least you admit illegal immigration is a problem. Freudian slip I suspect.

 

- being as good as Mexico isn't really my hope for America.

- statistically speaking, nobody in America is interested in open borders. So, that's something we all share - NOT the cause of concern about bigotry.

 

Of course it is a problem. So is my dull pencil but I won't spend billions sharpening it. LOL

 

The candidate you voted for wants open borders

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/8/hillary-clinton-dreams-open-borders-leaked-speech-/

And I would add, your first statement proves what that South Park episode said. Mexico is terrible, bringing millions of Mexicans here will make this country terrible.

It's not like coming here makes them into different people.

 

And why is it a problem?

 

First, thanks for sharing your side of things.

Frankly, I don't think we have a big problem with immigration. I do think we have a problem with wage stagnation, and employers exploit the fact that immigrants will often take lower wages, because it's still more money than they could make in their home country. As long as that exploitation can occur, it will. Money talks and BS walks, so we know what drives keeping them illegal. That's why I am for legal status or a path to citizenship. When workers aren't exploited because of their illegal status, then employers are free to hire whomever they wish. Unless we have a path to legal residency, employers will exploit them, so the other alternative is requiring employers use E-Verify. Those are two paths to the same ends, but one makes immigrants legal and one doesn't.

There are lots of well paying jobs in America. We were told at least two decades ago that our economy was going to change and shift from manufacturing to more intellectual jobs, so a college education would be necessary to compete. Lots of Americans went to college and remain in the middle to upper classes. Those that didn't or couldn't have struggled, but it is not for a lack of jobs. The jobs are there. The educated workforce isn't. Thus we get tons of H1B visas for those high paying jobs. Are immigrants taking the good jobs in America? Yes, they are… because Americans aren't trained for them. Part of that is our own problem. We were told college and extra training was going to be necessary, but at the same time allowed college costs to soar to the point that massive debt is required by too many. It's like the government was being run by two very different and opposing philosophies. The public school system and state land grant colleges were instituted to educate the workforce. Everyone participated in paying for it and everyone benefitted from a better economy… until we decided it was better to cut taxes and spend trillions on war.

This is just MNSHO, but I believe lots of our opioid addiction problem in this country occurred when people lost their jobs in the economic downturn, had no other options for a job in their community and needed "disability" payments from the government. "Back pain" requires pain killers and can be debilitating. Thus disability is approved. There's probably more to it than just that, but I know that to be true for some.

I agree with you that American citizens aren't going to do the backbreaking work of shoveling manure out of barns and milking cows, picking crops by hand, etc, for a low wage. It's similar to what happened in the south following the Civil War, when there was no longer slave labor to harvest the cotton. Eventually, efficient cost-effective machines replaced those laborers. The same is happening to most low skilled labor. The same will happen to exploited immigrant labor eventually. As soon as they aren't illegal and can get better jobs, look for those machines to pop up in fields near you.

 

Having it be illegal for millions of people in America to work to pay their own way is absolutely a problem.

So is having a large population of disenfranchised residents, having an underclass of cheap powerless labor, etc.

Nobody doubts that this is a problem.

 

Well according to the Pew research center and various others quoted in the article on PolitiFACT which checks claims for factual accuracy it is true.

Not really.

I'm not distracting. I'm discussing the allocation of resources. Why spend Billions of dollars on a physical wall to stop illegal immigration when traffic using that method is actually down. Wouldn't the money be better spent on tracking people that come here legally and don't leave especially since they're much harder to process and deport?

Or is this all just about symbolism?