What's the argument against background checks for private gun sales?

Well even with a national registry, how would it be enforceable? People could still privately sell guns without abiding by the law, right?

 

Why are the only ones who will do it the only ones we don't have to worry about?

 

Why would it not also be an honour system with a registration system?

 

Well in theory they could be given that ability. Or it could be done via a licensed dealer couldn't it?

 

Wouldn't the sale/purchase of a firearm by an individual (private) still be protected under the Constitution even with a background check requirement?

 

Well the federal government also regulates INTRASTATE sales doesn't it?

Yeah, but my question: "What's the argument against background checks for private gun sales?" still stands.

How?

Well that's just insane. It could be just a system error and the person might not pass the check. I would hope that these delays are EXTREMELY rare!

 

By having private sale background checks?

 

Can't a gun shop agree to run a check?

Well surely they WILL go along with it because it gets them one step closer to what you are saying is their end goal.

 

No, I'm saying that in theory private sellers could be given the ability to run a background check. Or a background check could be done via a licensed dealer couldn't it?

 

So you're also against background checks for FFL dealers?

 

Sure, but even with a registry, background checks for private sales still couldn't be enforced could it? People could still sell privately without doing a background check.

 

The claim is that having a registry is the only way to enforce that background checks are done for private sales. My counter-claim is that even with a registry, people could still sell privately without doing a background check. None of this seems to be an argument against background checks for private sales. I think that we agree on that.

 

Yeah, so that's why I said that to avoid confusion, a better name for the loophole would be simply: the private gun sale loophole. "Private sale exemption" works too.

 

Don't people have that ability now if a gunshop agrees to facilitate the background check?

 

You mean because, in theory, a gun dealer could break the law and never run a background check?

So how are background checks enforceable for dealers?

 

is in guns assembled out of parts yes that's real.

well really it would be called the private property clause because it's not a loophole.

Having the right to sell my property if I so choose I don't have to ask anyone for permission.

no the ATF does when you do a background check it goes through the ATF.

I had a photo ID when I was 16 that said I was 21 you've never heard of a fake ID? It isn't a police officer or even a bartender looking at it it's just some clerk in the store.

This is why it has nothing to do with preventing prohibited people from getting guns was never the point of it in the first place it was so the ATF could collect data.

 

Because the smart people won't do it.

What's going to happen to me if I don't who's even going to know?

 

I am a proponent of better background checks as a one step of what could be many to controlling gun violence in our nation.
I am NOT a proponent of confiscating or restricting "types" of firearms or any firearms.

Goals:
Keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill and violent, in addition to criminals which we already check for.

Problems:
HIPPA
Getting on the "can't buy" list and not being able to get off
Getting on the list when you don't belong on it.
Privacy and on going government knowledge of firearm ownership

So how do we do that within the Constraints of OUR Constitution?

The database of convicted felons would need to be expanded to flag people that have mental issues that a medical professional considers incompatible with firearm ownership. No justification for putting someone on the list would be made so no medical history would be revealed. If someone is placed on the list they would have a no cost option to challenge being on it. Hopefully this would make "medical professionals" carefully consider putting someone on the list. But, you would hope the potential for violence would make them prone to error on the side of caution. NO penalty for either the medical professional or the individual in question, other than not being able to buy a firearm, would exist.

People that are convicted of violent acts, like beating the **** out of their wife or kids, repetitive street brawling ... input on who makes the list would be sought from judges and upper level police officers. Again placement on the list could be challenged, without penalty for anyone involved.

As now if you are refused a purchase because you have a similar name or other marker to someone rightfully on the list you can apply for a permanent exemption, from having to appeal each time you want to purchase a firearm.

Once approved NO records of the BGC would be retained.

Private gun sales would have to go through a FFL holder, as we do mail order sales now. Not using an FFL holder for the transfer would subject the seller AND buyer to stiff fines but no criminal charges UNLESS you are a convicted felon; in which case if you're on parole your parole would be in violation, with a mandatory return to prison to complete your sentence and any added time for attempting to make a illegal firearm purchase. IF you're a felon attempting to buy a firearm should be a crime subject to fines and imprisonment. The FFL holder would process a BGC at a minimal charge as it's done now for mail order purchases.

Inherited firearms would only require one check on the heir, one form, one fee; no matter how many guns are involved. Each heir would have to have a check by an FFL holder. There would be no need to "register" firearms to comply with this law.

I think this might have the added benefit of cutting down on violence, it just might make someone think twice before brawling or slapping their wife.

IS this perfection, no, would it help, it just might. Again it's only one step to curb gun violence not an all encompassing solution. Gun violence, IMHO, is a huge problem that will need to be chipped away at until we solve it. Right now it takes 20 minutes to do a background check, including filling out the paper work; certainly we can and should do a more thorough job.

 

Well aren't these a risk if anyone can get them?

Well guns are the property of a gun dealer until they are sold aren't they?

National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is operated by the FBI isn't it?

How could it be your brother's ID if it has his photo?

 

Well the alternative would be for a gun dealer to run the background check on behalf of the private seller.

I just assumed that when a gun dealer gets the result of a background check, it would be in form of simply "approved" or "denied." Why would it include access to the person's criminal record?

 

Many guns are custom made, from parts, by their owners these days; it's quite the fad.

The only part of a gun that is serialized is the receiver. Only when a receiver is complete the serial number is stamped into it, otherwise it might be machined off again during manufacture. A lot of home built guns are made with finished receivers that have a serial number.

Ghost guns are made using receivers that haven't been completed, there is much machining to be done before it can function. Private builders buy incomplete receivers and DIY them in their private shop or garage. When they finish their receiver, at present, there is no requirement to have it serialized.

IMHO, this is not near the problem it's cracked up to be. At least if government is living up to our Constitution. There should be no record of who owns which firearm anyway.

 

Yeah but the idea is that the private background checks would be federal law, just like background checks are currently.
You're point is about city governments, and you're EXACTLY right that they don't enforce the law, but that is not relevant to this discussion.

 

So then you're not saying that information is collected during a background check at a dealer.

 

True, as I understand it.