What's the criteria for getting into Heaven?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by XXJefferson#51, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    The criteria is whatever one wants to believe.
    All believer believe they have the criteria to get into heaven.
    By repentance or good works.

    ...
    4. How do Jewish people believe you get to heaven?

    Before we answer that question, it needs to be said that not all Jewish people believe in heaven. Reformed Jewish people, (the least of the religious) believe that there is no life after death. People only live on in the memories of the living. The Orthodox Jewish people, (the very religious) do believe in a life after death and the Conservative Jewish people, (those in the middle) go both ways. Those who lean towards the Orthodox believe in life after death and those who lean towards the Reformed do not believe in it. For those Jewish people who do believe in a literal heaven the way you get there is by good works. They call them “mitzvahs.” A mitzvah is anything that you do that benefits somebody.
    https://midwestmessianic.com/q-a/ho...w-do-jewish-people-believe-you-get-to-heaven/


    ...
    Being a Muslim it is our belief that we have to die one day and our final destination is the life of the hereafter. In the hereafter, we go to Jannah (Paradise) or Jahannam (Hell-fire) depends upon the deeds that we did in worldly life. Jannah or heaven is the hope of every Muslim all of us wish for Jannah in the hereafter.
    http://www.quranreading.com/blog/how-does-a-muslim-get-to-heaven-major-ways-of-getting-to-jannah/

    ...
    The most famous of these dwelling-places of the dead is undoubtedly Valhalla (Old Norse Valhöll, “the hall of the fallen”), the resplendent hall of the god Odin. Those chosen by Odin and his valkyries live there as celebrated heroes until they’re called upon to fight by Odin’s side in the doomed battle at Ragnarok, the downfall of the gods and the rest of the universe.
    The most famous of these dwelling-places of the dead is undoubtedly Valhalla (Old Norse Valhöll, “the hall of the fallen”), the resplendent hall of the god Odin. Those chosen by Odin and his valkyries live there as celebrated heroes until they’re called upon to fight by Odin’s side in the doomed battle at Ragnarok, the downfall of the gods and the rest of the universe.

    Pick any religion. They all have different ways, many common though, on how to get to heave.
    Christianity has several ways, depending on the version one believes.
     
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  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's one perspective - those that worship the dogma of Martin Luther - the Protesters

    James 2 uses strong words to condemn this belief .. calling such people foolish - saying even demons have faith.. says such a faith is useless and dead.

    Other perspectives try to follow the teachings of Jesus - which includes works.
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I believe in karma

    and it’s a bitch
     
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  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    When I was a kid, I baptized myself by running under the lawn sprinklers. I think that is all that is required, but admittedly I haven't read the fine print.
     
  5. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    As a result of having a relationship with God, we will seek to please him and not continue in old sins. Faith without works is dead, but the works are to grow an existing relationship with God, not to do anything on our own or of our own merit. All who believe and grow a relationship with God have the assurance of salvation and heaven.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As stated "without merit" is one perspective - a perspective that knows naught of the teachings of Jesus - a minority perspective that - to be honest - is now contested even within Protestantism - a perspective that can only be supported by Pauline scripture - and even that is tenuous. It is really the dogma of Martin Luther . . turned into some kind of Idol and worshiped as such - worshiped for that free pass through judgment .. despite the fact that even Paul states that at the end of days all will be judged.

    The Majority Perspective does not agree with this dogma - does not agree with "Sola Fide" - and neither does "The Will of the Father" as explained in Matt 5 -7 Sermon on the mount .. Sermon devoted to how one gets through the pearly gates .. so it is not for nothing that the majority thinks otherwise.
     
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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good point... it is not our purpose to even judge churches.


    https://near-death.com/betty-eadie-nde/

     
  8. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can't say we mimic the Creator, but rather we become like Him through His Grace. It's called Grace because it's the gift that God gives to us when we turn to Him and acknowledge that we had need of redemption. God works our Hearts, minds and souls and makes us a different person. This is why Christ said that the Kingdom of God is within us.
     
  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    K... what I mean is that we use the creative potential bestowed in us by Him, the Creator, in whose image we are made. He can create anything, and so might we, should we put enough time and effort into it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
  10. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She's right! There are innate differences between cultures and God will reach others in a way that they could comprehend. This does not mean that heresies do not exist, or that all the world's faiths are the same. Of course they're not. What it means is that as long as the foundation and basic truths of Christianity are maintained, the differences in traditions are of little consequences.
     
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  11. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    I am a Protestant but not a Lutheran. Luther started the reformation and other Protestants expanded the reforms beyond what Luther discovered. As to the beatitudes, they are what Jesus expects of us and modeled for us. What you describe there as works are things that we do because we love him and want to please him in our life acts and interactions with others. We have been saved and do these things because we love him. We don’t do them in order to buy or earn Heaven on our own. No amount of moving up staircases on our knees over broken glass will get us into Heaven or get a sin forgiven. Now my version of Protestant doesn’t accept once saved always saved either. One can’t have their conversion moment and then go on living their lives after church as if nothing happened in their interactions. One can backslide and walk away from their faith. There is a place for works. But salvation is through faith alone. The works come after to please Him because we love him. They don’t buy us salvation. We do them because we are saved already and want to do them. Feed the poor, help the sick, visit the prisoners, and more. I definitely believe in the Bible and the Bible alone. And that I can ask God directly for forgiveness of my sins without going through a man to gain forgiveness. I am aware that mine is not a majority position in the Christian Church.
     
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  12. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The act of Baptism is giving one a predisposition towards Christianity. It doesn't mean though that they will be a Christian. That's something that has to come through one's own volition.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Appreciate the detailed and coherent response.. .. I too was born into Protestantism .. Lutheran to be exact :) have relatives of the cloth .. and too many interactions to count - with them .. and their friends / co -workers - imagine having lets say 12 of the cloth - at a BBQ - and the boss is there ... called a "District President" - on his 3rd martini .. Prime rib will be the feast .. and all will enjoy .

    Now is the time to debate the Trinity - and other such concepts - and would you be suprized .. was 3 of us . myself and 2 of the cloth ... one who wasn't my uncle but was referred to as Uncle Fred - because of the closeness to our family .. played doctor with one of his daughers .:)

    One agreed with my perspective - the other did not .. I am now Orthodox .. baptized twice - so that should get me extra credit no ? Was simply for marriage ..but - I kind of liked it as I believe Orthodox is the closest one will find to the teachings of Jesus .. not only doctrinally but the way it is practiced .. and of course historically.

    Sola Fide " the Free Ticket - Look - it doesn't matter at the end of the day - as would you live your life any differently would there be a criteria .. and perhaps more interestingly - while on the topic .. what would that criteria be ? Did Jesus give one ? .. and if so .. what was it? talking works here .. there must be a reason why the majority believes differently no ?

    One thing about a minister in the Lutheran Church .. is that getting into this club requires 8 years in the Seminary .. learning greek, Latin, Hebrew .. then vicar for a year .. or maybe that is part of the 8 .. but its not some online - be a preacher course - like we often see in the club Fundamental.

    but back to the "criteria" - Do you know what it is ? What Jesus says is "The will of the Father" ? Hint. Matt 7:12

    Don't do to others what you hate, the rest is all commentary, now go and learn - Rabbi Hillel 110 BC - 10 Ad - Teacher of "HeyZeus" my latinized pronunciation. of our lord .. who became the Most High .. like Zeus.

    Jesus says - Don't do to others what you hate - "Thus Rule - sums up the Law and the Prophets" For in everything that you do - do to others what you would have them do to you ... and gives number of other examples of "The Golden Rule" in this sermon on what it takes to get through the gates.

    Go to the source mate . let thee not be beguiled by the Idol Martin .. whose famous Treaties "On the Jews and their Lies" was a classic of his time.
     
  14. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Baptism is a sacrament - an outward symbol of an inward Grace. It most certainly does mean you're a Christian.
     
  15. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Your position is more mainstream than you know.
     
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  16. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    So your new denomination split from the church in Rome about 4 1/3 centuries before Luther and other Protestant reformers did.
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One has to acquire the Holy Spirit to be a Christian. The Catholics say: Baptism gives one the potential to become a Christian, and the Orthodox say: Baptism illuminates one towards Christianity.
     
  18. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Catholics do not say that. They say that Baptism is necessary for salvation.
     
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Protestantism was not a "Split" - between some existing large group within the Universal Church that had existed for 1000 years - designated by East and West .. it was a new religion .. Orthodox dates back to the time of Christ .. Greek Orthodox being the first Church founded by Paul ..
     
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is important to note that since the revolt of Covering Cherub HaLel who became Lucifer / Satan....
    the Creator simply will not attempt to dwell with proud people or angels!

    "For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones." (Isaiah 57:15)

    "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3)
     
  21. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Baptism is not necessary for salvation because you can't put boundaries around God's love. But it does facilitate one towards a higher state of Grace and therefore salvation, since it extends the Christian love one person has to another person.

    I read that the Emperor Constantine didn't get baptized until he was ready to die. Had he died before being baptized, would he have been less holy? What about the prophets in the OT? Anyway here's an interesting story.

    One day I came across a monastic Elder on the Greek Youtube who was interviewing 2 young people from Berlin. One was a Greek boy and the other a Turkish girl. They were platonic friends, and were sitting with their backs to the camera for security reasons. The girl would speak in German and the boy would translate it into Greek.

    One day the boy told her he was going to church, and she asked him what he believed in. She said that she's an Alevi but they're not religious. I believe the Alevis are the Pontian Greek Christians who didn't want to leave Turkey during the population exchange and became part of the Shia faith.

    The boy explained his Christian beliefs which she liked, but had a hard time understanding them, so she began praying to God for help. Soon Saint George began to appear in her dreams. The Muslims, and especially the Turks have a high regard for Saint George and churches dedicated to him were the only ones the Ottomans didn't destroy. As an example; two years ago, over 200 thousand Muslims attended the services to Saint George at a Byzantine shrine outside of Istanbul.

    In her dreams, Saint George would tell her to get after her friend to go to church more often. One day Saint George told her he wanted to give her a gift and she'll find it on the balcony of the boys apartment. The boy was embarrassed because his balcony was a garbage dump, but when she looked under the mess, she saw something shining. It was a Cross.

    Right after that Saint George began to speak to her. He told her that she can hear him, but the boy cannot because he is not on the same level that she is. Mind you now, she was an unbaptized Muslim and was purer and in a higher state of Grace than him. Saint George told her the cross is the one he held in his hand when he was undergoing torture for his Christian faith.

    Anyway there was something miraculous about the Cross when she handed it to the Elder, but I didn't catch what the Elder said. I know that sometimes a holy object will exude and smell of myrhh, (I have such an object), so maybe that's it. Eventually the girl did get baptized.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  22. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Funny how only Christians have saints appearing in their dreams, while other people get other things or no such thing at all.
     
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  23. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Cool story, bro, but being an ordained Anglican Priest (and Anglicans are as close to Catholic as you can be without actually being Catholic) these questions are in our catechism. If you read the entire New Testament in context you will see it is true. Don't make the mistake of filling the holes in your knowledge with fantasy.
     
  24. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Furthermore, if there's one thing that turns people off about Christianiity it's that after 2000 years of non-disciples freelancing their way through the story and getting the details wrong, making Christianity sound more like a fairy tale than the largest religion in the world with actual historical figures and events.

    I used to be a Protestant and when I decided to go to seminary I said "There are things those (Protestant) preachers knew and I wanted to know what it was, and what it was was that the pieces the Protestants gave us didn't fit together very well, so they had to fudge it.

    You dont have to oversell Christianity, it's amazing enough as it is.
     
  25. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not out to oversell Christianity, only to express my beliefs and my experiences.
     
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