Who is indoctrination children

Of course I ignored it. Because the post you are responding to was only intended to clarify what "equality" means.

But, if you insist, yes. Florida schools are becoming more and more sub-par as the fascist Governor decides to micro-manage them every day more, instead of leaving it to teachers who KNOW what they're doing. And the OP makes a good case to prove this.

 

Government run schools = indoctrination.

 

I suppose you did your "due diligence" research to learn that the Florida governor was a "fascist." Good to know.

I went to high school in Delaware, not Florida. My wife and I moved down here 20 years after and early retirement. I met her in Massachusetts, near Boston, where she grew up.

Schools in Delaware went though probably the same evolution that they did in other states. The one room country school house, where my mother almost went until her father bought a house in town to avoid that, was consolidated into town schools. Funding for those schools was part of The New Deal. Later those high schools were consolidated into regional schools. I was a student during the second phase. There were 56 kids in my high school graduating class.

The people in the town were not that well off. What money that was spent on the schools most went to the athletic teams, which met more to the citizens of the town. They voted for a nice field house and shower rooms, but they voted against new chemistry and and language laboratories. Hence the school was unaccredited.

On my senior trip, we went to the Smithsonian in Washington, DC. One exhibit was of a "chemistry laboratory from the 1890s." It looked just like the one we had in our high school.

 

"Indoctrination" is more sinister because it an element of brainwashing is involved.

Teaching isn't preaching.

 

That supposition is always accurate. And, BTW, I have posted my findings multiple times in this forum. It was pretty easy to prove, and you can use the forum's "Search" function, if you want to research further.

I went to school in Michigan 50+ years ago, and both my sons went in Florida. One of them currently and participating in excellent advanced programs in public schools of the type that DeSantis has undermined (though not in the areas that the fascist has attacked yet). But this is not about me... or you. It's about the school system. And it's a historical fact that, for obvious reasons, fascists have always opposed education. And DeSantis has proven that he is not the exception.

 

You don't think the idea that we should be ashamed of being naked requires a significant amount of brainwashing? We just don't notice it because part of the ocean we are born into.

We use indoctrination to label things we do not want added to the fabric of human existence, the things we like or agree with are never referred to as indoctrination.

 

Your own, vague, conceptual talk, is not how DEBATE works. How does what you posted, apply to the OP-- namely, the changing of the history lesson on Rosa Parks, to omit the fact that laws required blacks to give up their seats, to whites?

 

Please, spare us DeSantis propaganda about the "free people" of Florida.

More than half of Floridians are second class citizens. Care to guess why?

The "common sense approach" creates a state-level bureaucracy that may well turn schools into a gong show. This is the part of the law doing the damage:

"If a concern is not resolved by the school district, a parent may:​

"(I) Request the Commissioner of Education to appoint a special magistrate who is a member of The Florida Bar in good standing and who has at least 5 years’ experience in administrative law. The special magistrate shall determine facts relating to the dispute over the school district procedure or practice, consider information provided by the school district, and render a recommended decision for resolution to the State Board of Education within 30 days after receipt of the request by the parent. The State Board of Education must approve or reject the recommended decision at its next regularly scheduled meeting that is more than 7 calendar days and no more than 30 days after the date the recommended decision is transmitted. The costs of the special magistrate shall be borne by the school district. The State Board of Education shall adopt rules, including forms, necessary to implement this subparagraph.
(II) Bring an action against the school district to obtain a declaratory judgment that the school district procedure or practice violates this paragraph and seek injunctive relief. A court may award damages and shall award reasonable attorney fees and court costs to a parent who receives declaratory or injunctive relief."​

http://laws.flrules.org/2022/22

So, they have a lawyer investigate a teaching practice, and if a parent disagrees, they can go to court and have a judge issue an order.

And what if orders conflict or overlap? There's your gong show. Lawyers deciding how best to teach computer science. "Programming is too hard for Billy…" says Mom. "He must have a modified education program!" The lawyer in Tallahassee will then decide. Mom, of course, can even ask for injunctive relief if she doesn't like how the state called it.

Florida Republicans are abusing teachers and driving away young people who want to teach, especially in subject areas with good employment opportunities.

I find it amusing and instructive these cited parts of the law were amendments to the legislation.

 

I do. I see no reason to brainwash students on this or any other matter.

Most of us probably haven't focused on it. I don't know if we would be ashamed if a lot of people started going without clothes.

Anything not open to question is indoctrination.

 

Spare me the ridiculous claim that acts of the Freely Elected Legislature are somehow unjust, but the authoritarian mandates of the unelected Edu-thugs are acts of 'democracy'. Do you stand on your head while you come up with this stuff? Because it seems kinda reversed.

 

Exactly. Equity means we will rob from those who achieve to give to those who don't.

 

I am fine with us brainwashing our children to believe that gay and trans people are real, and that it's ok to talk about it if they feel that way. This isn't something that happens without generational effort, and it's not going to be comfortable until we do figure out the best way to work it out, but not being able to talk about it only makes it harder to figure out. I'm not saying that we should be talking kids into being gay or trans. There is a happy medium here, and using extreme examples to discredit the entire conversation isn't helping anyone.

What do you think would happen if I just started going out naked? Do you think people would allow me to question them being offended, or that their children seeing me naked harms them? There are uncontacted tribes that don't worry about this, sure, they usually wear some clothes, but they aren't worried about hiding specific body parts from their children. We do worry about that because thousands of years of indoctrination has built our reality. It's a useful indoctrination, and since we feel it's useful, we don't call it that.

 

No problem given I never made a comment even remotely along these lines. The Florida law antagonizes teachers, wastes their time and drives them out of teaching. Legal? Yes. Stupid? Yes.

You never seem to tire of making up positions for people. The Florida law is a solution to a problem that, if it exists, should be solved by the employer.

 

That's correct. Equal opportunity, not equal results.

Yet liberals demand the results they want.

 

Pointing out that gay and trans people exist is education. Saying it's okay to say you're trans or gay is a statement of how you feel, not an indication of how others feel.

Education is talking about it.

Teachers should be providing information. It's not our place to endorse ideas.

I used to tell business students I could get them on the evening tv news. They would scoff, but change their tune when I said they could run around naked in the school parking lot and I would call the tv news departments. The point was to talk about socialization. It gets into how a business treats its customers and employees, and how it works with the public.

We don't have to continue indoctrinating students.

 

No, I'm saying we should want our children indoctrinated, and that is one of the points of public education.

I learned racism was bad when I was in school in the 80s, i would not have learned that at home.

The same thing goes for gay and trans, kids need to be taught that it is ok, because it is ok. That is a value that our society needs to be instilling in children.

 

My guess is that any school book publisher is going to shy away from controversial issues that could be labeled as "woke" by DeSantis and his flock. Why? Because nobody wants to invest good money in a book, only for it to later be banned by DeSantis.

 

It is. The People of FL fund public education.

 

Not with me part of it, nor a lot of the teachers who have a rapport with students.

You could have been educated in school and come to the conclusion racism is a bad thing as a result of your education.

Same goes here, too. An education is the solution.

Values kids have adopted on their own as a result of education.

 

The government of Florida is not the employer.

 

Not if my education wasn't allowed to discuss about race.

 

Not exactly trustworthy. When a leftwing biased site say's you're not always factual, AND you're a leftwing site... then its probably not a good idea to trust them.

 

If you tell a black kid that white people have white privilege, and tell that same black kid that they are oppressed, what kind of conclusion do you think that black kid is going to make? Especially when that black kid is also taught that we live in a racist systemic society in which laws were made by white people to oppress black people and that such a system is still in effect today? You think a 6th grader is going to try and make the same kind of distinction that you're attempting to make here?



Some how.... I don't think so...

 

Should we not teach kids things that we don't think they will get?

Isn't the point of teaching kids things, making sure that they get it?

 

Huh? What are you saying?