Your last paragraph says it all. You agree with the goals of Hamas. You characterized Israel as a “fascist rogue state.” The discussion is over. Opposing anti-Semitism is not “lame.” Israel is the size of New Jersey when the Arab states are much larger. Is that too much to ask? For you, it is.
Yeah, I guess that explains the last 2000 of Jew hatred as well? It's always the Jew's fault, isn't it?
My last paragraph says nothing about Hamas. Criticizing Israel with arguments =/= anti-Semitism You're just pulling the race card because you can't defend what Israel does. I would judge that as typical Israeli.
Aha. When you say that the poster is defending Israel, means I am indeed criticizing it. And so... You're just supporting a person pulling a race card when it can't defend the fascistic policies of Israel, because that's what you got taught to do yourself.
Your opininon is badly flawed. Israel is not pursuing fascist policies Do you even know what fascist policies are? Israel is defending herself, and I agree with the policies being used.
It's colonizing the state of Palestine through terror and it's a racist motivated policy for the sake to benefit the Jew at the expense of the Arab. Nope. The colonization of the state of Palestine are unprovoked war crimes, and Hamas is the reaction. The blame in on Israeli Jews and it's supporters. This policy has been going on for decades by majority vote of them Jews. This policy has been made possible by Jews massively joining the IDF. Are you now going to sell me that a person who voted for war crimes and participate in them, is innocent because they are Jews?
Jew will not willingly submit themselves to hatred and slaughter forever. They've decided the time has come to defend themselves no matter who gets in the way. Good, it's about time, I support Israel fully.
To colonize the state of Palestine has nothing to do with being submissive or something. This war crime is fascist and demands Arabs for being Arabs to be submissive to you Jews and give up their land through sheer terrorism. You know that, and yet you support this. It's to no surprise though.
What is the point, you are trying to make? Are you under the ridiculous impression, that people deny the Hamas attack? Apparently so, since that is your obvious focus. But this makes your thread, entirely moot-- no one questions the why, of Israel's response. ALL the controversy, is over the how aspect, of Israel's assault on Gaza. So that is what I will address, under the theory that you do wish your thread to be a real topic of discussion, regarding the Israeli-Hamas conflict. The first thing to understand, for anyone who wishes to have a well considered opinion on any of this, is that in time of war, there is no side that can be assumed to be telling the "truth." Both sides are trying to spin a narrative. That does not mean, that nothing that either side says, is true. What it means, is that any intelligent person wants corroborating evidence, to support the claims of either side. Neither one, should be taken, merely at their word, based on the faulty logic that one side is more reliable, than the other. That basic truth now stated, let us look at the Israeli claims, that the only reason there are so many civilian casualties, is because Palestinians have refused to leave the conflict zone, as Israel has asked, despite being given ample opportunity to do so, and a safe, livable place to go. The facts, though, do not support this narrative. Instead, all reports from those who've been in the camps, set up for evacuating Palestinians-- as from members of aid groups, like Doctors Without Borders-- are that these refugee camps are themselves, humanitarian crises, in the midst of occurring. There lacks even the allowance for basic needs, like water and sanitation. This nurse details a camp with 50,000 refugees, which had only 4 toilets, and is only provided 2 hours of running water, for every twelve hours. Or, Zalekbloom, is it your argument that, because members of Hamas launched this attack, killing over a thousand Israelis, any response of Israel's is justified, regardless of its affects on the non combatant population? If Israel decided to drop a nuclear bomb, and kill 2.3 million Palestinians, does the Hamas attack make that reasonable, in response? If not, then congratulations! You now understand at least the basic issue being argued: what is reasonable, and necessary, versus what constitutes "group punishment" which, FYI, is against international law (not to mention, against the morals & ethics of most people-- which is why international laws against excessive civilian collateral damage, could be agreed to, in the first place). I will save my Exhibit #2, for its own post.
The only opinion that matters is that of Israel. Israel has decided the continued attacks from Hamas represent an existential threat to their state and must be destroyed. The opinions of you and CNN are of no importance in the conflict at all.
Exhibit 2, against the idea the Israel is truly making much effort, to safeguard civilian lives. https://www.npr.org/2023/11/17/1213579692/israel-gaza-evacuation-south-attacks <Snip> Israeli bombardment has killed thousands of civilians in the areas of the Gaza Strip that Israel has ordered them to move to, Gaza health ministry death tolls show. Witnesses' accounts, satellite data and expert assessment gathered by NPR show that Israeli airstrikes and artillery fire occur daily in the areas Israel has said are "safer" for civilians, and have hit schools, residential towers and overcrowded United Nations refugee shelters. Amid its military offensive on Gaza City and the northern Gaza Strip, the Israeli military has repeatedly dropped leaflets and sent messages telling residents they must leave their homes and "evacuate" to areas it claims are safer, which are south of the Wadi Gaza wetlands. Families have risked journeys through the blasted landscape of destroyed buildings and corpses, along the road that Israel has designated as a "humanitarian corridor" through the war. For the few hours each day that the road is open, people carry or drag wounded loved ones. They push wheelchairs with patients just out of surgery in hospitals that have now stopped working. Mothers pull along weary children who look around with blank, fearful stares. But what awaits Palestinians who move south is still life-threatening. The "evacuation" areas are both heavily bombarded and in a dire humanitarian crisis, as Israel's blockade of fuel and control of aid into the Gaza Strip leaves people searching for food and access to clean water. "Israel's use of the term 'evacuation' for sending Palestinians to southern areas is really problematic, because it conjures up an idea of a safe route to a place of safety," says Caitlin Procter, a research fellow at the Center on Conflict Development and Peacebuilding at the Geneva Graduate Institute. "But the reality is there is no safe place left in Gaza for people to go." More than 3,600 people have been killed south of Wadi Gaza. <End Snip> So the welfare of the displaced Palestinians-- which means millions of people-- can be viewed as either the responsibility of the primary attacker (which is now Israel), or else just tough luck, for all those people. No one denied that what Hamas did, was terrible. We only do not accept, that it justifies Israel in killing an unlimited number of people, who had nothing personally to do with that Hamas attack. Do you feel that Israel does deserve carte blanche, and should be absolved of all responsibility, for those killed by its munitions? But wait! There is a kicker, to my exhibit, showing that Israel has not set up the "safe places" that it has touted. One of the reasons, some Palestinians have resisted fleeing, is the fear of a replay of 1948, when Palestinian refugees from Israel, were dispossessed of their property, and had it made part of greater Israel. There have been many who have suspected, and members of the currently radical Right Israeli government who have expressed the desire, that Israel will use this attack as a way of pushing Palestinians outside of their borders. And today, I am hearing that Israel has again begun dropping leaflets, telling Palestinians to evacuate-- but they are now doing it, in southern Gaza! That is, it is dropping the leaflets for the refugees, who have already listened to Israel, and fled their homes-- leaving behind nearly all possessions, to make a treacherous journey, to a place that is ill-equipped to attend their basic needs, and that is still not safe from bombing-- to now flee once again. But to where? Is Israel going to allow them into its own country? Don't bet on it. <Snip> ...So far, Israeli airstrikes have hit residential buildings, bakeries, hospitals and even United Nations-run shelters across the heavily populated Gaza Strip, including in the south... Earlier this week, Israel's military dropped leaflets telling residents in parts of the southern town of Khan Younis they too had to leave their homes. The IDF did not respond to NPR's request for comment on this further displacement of civilians. The dangers for those fleeing south are evident from the high number of people killed there. So far, a total of 11,470 people — of which more than two-thirds are children, women and elderly — have been killed in Gaza since Israel launched its military offensive last month, according to Gaza's Health Ministry. A map by the United Nations' humanitarian affairs office, relying on the health ministry's data, shows that more than 3,600 people — roughly one-third of the total — were killed in areas where Israel has told civilians in northern Gaza to escape to. Satellite imagery shows an increase in damage to central and southern Gaza since Oct. 13 The latest analysis of imagery from the European Space Agency's Sentinel-1 satellite shows a steady increase in the number of buildings destroyed in middle and southern Gaza. Since the beginning of the conflict, over 10,000 buildings are likely to have been damaged or destroyed by airstrikes in these areas, according to analysis by Corey Scher of New York's CUNY Graduate Center and Jamon Van Den Hoek of Oregon State University... The majority – 94% – of the damage to central and southern Gaza appeared after Oct. 13, when the Israeli military ordered the evacuation of northern Gaza. Since Oct. 30, between 3,400 and 4,800 additional buildings have been destroyed or damaged in this so-called evacuation zone, including in the heavily populated refugee camps of Bureij and Al-Maghazi. On Tuesday, Israeli airstrikes hit a densely populated residential area in Khan Younis, killing at least 14 people. Several news reports have noted bombardments also hit residential buildings in the Nuseirat refugee camp and Deir al-Balah, both in central Gaza. <End Snip>
LOL, at your foolishness! Am I-- or anyone-- supposed to take your point, as a serious one? No one's opinion matters, except "Israel's?" People's opinions are of no import, if they cannot change the situation? Then what of your thread, calling for a revival of our national morals? Did you think that was going to happen, just because you called for it? If not, it would make your opinion "of no importance." So the obvious suggestion, of your post, that I should keep my opinion to myself, would only make a hypocrite, of yourself. That is what we do here: share our opinions, even if we are not in a position to control world events. Somehow, I had given you credit for understanding at least that much. So, you are saying that Israel can slaughter as many as they want, with impunity? If they decided to follow up on what one Israeli government official had said, and dropped a nuclear bomb or two, on Gaza, killing hundreds of thousands-- you would not find that objectionable? While it's good to know where you stand on that-- which should be especially useful to know, for any who read your posts, lecturing on morals-- do you not understand that your claim, about my opinion not mattering, is only your opinion. But I guess your opinion, is of world significance? Newsflash, speedy: your opinion, doesn't mean Jack. It is certainly no more important than mine. So it seems time for someone to put his Ego, on a weight loss program. Your baseless pronouncements, are out of place, in a debate. If you could manage an actual argument, then be my guest. If not, all any would need, to counter such an impotent rebuttal as you offer, would be the same puerile mentality, and the capability of saying: "Nyaa, nyaa-- your opinion doesn't matter."
Israel is going to pay no attention whatever to your opinion. You're so far on the sideline on this one you're not even visible. They will not consult you nor me nor anyone other they own national security agencies. You're just an old man shaking his fist and yelling at the clouds in this matter.
Thanks, professor-- but I already knew that! Did you think that I had believed Bibi Netanyahu, was reading my posts? I was under no such illusion. Doesn't that also describe every idea, against which you've raised your own, metaphorical fist, in these forums? If you did not limit those who can see your profile, so that I could review your past posts-- what issues would I see you raising objections against (transgender? book banning? abortion?) in which the decision makers, would not consider your opinions, if they were aware of your existence, "on the sideline?" I will repeat the idea you should have taken from my prior post: you clearly seem to have no inkling of how this debate forum works. People can even post theoretical arguments, about past history. IOW, the litmus for the acceptability of an argument, is not that somebody in power, is going to act upon it.
Sorry, I wasn't aware people can't view my profile information. Now I've changed it so anyone can see my profile details and past posts. At least I think I have, I haven't paid much attention to those settings in the past.
Not a word about the horific situation of the more than 200 Israeli hostages in Gaza. Doctors Without Borders didn't even try to get access to the hostages. CNN didn't even try to ask about that. Only Palestinian lives matter. Despicable.
Nope, historical anti-Semitism has two main reasons: xenophobia and Christianity. Christians believe that Jews caused the Romans to nail Prophet Jesus (s.a.w.s.) to a cross.
Yes, even on this forum there are people who claim that Israel's attack on Gaza has not any relation to the Oct 7 Hamas attack on Israel, but it is the result of Israel racist, fascist, colonial policy. I totally disagree. If the question is how, it means people should react to the similar situation exactly the similar way, does not matter if Israel attacks Gaza, Hamas attacks Israel, Arabs attack Arabs or Russia attack Ukraine. And this is exact description of todays 'how': https://twitter.com/HilzFuld/status/1720382304474771881 I agree that Both sides are trying to spin a narrative, but each side is a little different. If an Israeli tries to expose government lies, he will demonstrate with a slogan - "Israeli government is lying". If a Gazan will try to expose Hamas lies, it will look like that: "Hamas is ly.....don't shoot, habibi don't shooo...aaaaa". So the statement 'Both sides are trying to spin a narrative' is not exactly fair. Hamas until today denies they killed citizens, here is how Hamas responds to this accusations: Are Israelis responsible for killing all Palestinians? Could Israel respond differently to reduce civilian casualties? Let first look on the UNDISPUTED FACTS. Israel left Gaza in 2005 and from this year Gaza was ruled by Hamas. Gaza received millions of dollars from Arab countries, Europe and from the UN. How the money was invested? Today in Gaza there is lack of clean water, lack of electricity, lack of food, lack of fuel. What Gaza has more then enough? Rockets! Almost every day they shoot rockets on Israeli towns. From 2005 Hamas built huge underground network of tunnels (estimates is at least 500 km/300 miles length) not to protect its civilians from bombing, but to protect its military force, to build and to store ammunitions and to attack Israel (some tunnels ended in Israel). Hamas had offices and ammunitions stores in regular civilian buildings - I saw on Israeli TV a video with half damaged civilian building, where one room had children beds, another room was a workshop for assembling drones with grenades and mortar projectiles. Yes, Israel can reduce Palestinians causalities, by not using airplanes, tanks and artillery and using hand to hand combat in the city, but it will increase Israeli fatalities at least 10 times. Israel has no professional army, in Israel everyone must serve in the army, every Israel serves in Israeli reserve and is called to duty about once a year for a few weeks. If I was American, French or Arab, I would say - yes, this is the way Israelis should fight. If you read the Hamas chapter, it says very clearly - they don't want peace with Israel, that want to replace Israel by a Muslim state. So what do you suggest - how Israel should fight with Hamas and to reduce civilian causalities? Another TRUE FACT: Israel has a capability to kill all people in Gaza without loosing a single soldier, but is not doing it. Hamas is trying to kill as many Israelis as they can - Gaza has not enough food, Gaza has not enough drinking water, Gaza has not enough electrify, Gaza has not enough medicine, but Gaza has enough rockets to shoot on Israel, even today. So how do you think Israel should fight an organization which attacked Israel and declared it will never make peace with Israel - in order to reduce civilian causalities?
If the occupants of the Gaza strip, which include also Christians and Druze, would sign an agreement that all of the wealth under the ground and under the shallow sea off the coastline, is the property of Israel, then the occupants of the Gaza strip would be left alone.
Get some perspective. Name me one complicated issue, that-- every time it gets any news coverage-- every facet of the situation, comes into the conversation. That's not how it works. There are some parts of the news coverage which are specifically about the hostages, in which, for example, the conditions in the refugee camps, are not mentioned. Not every aspect is of equal relevance, from every point of focus. In considering the living conditions, provided by Israel, and those aid agencies which Israel has allowed access-- but who are yet, still dependent upon Israel for access to water, assurances of safety from their bombers, & so forth-- for those Palestinian civilians, whom Israeli government officials say they are trying to get out of harm's way, the hostage issue falls outside of any direct relationship. So, that they are not mentioned in this particular story, is no indication of their being devalued.
@zalekbloom Ever since I visited the Twitter site, in your reply, I am having a technical problem, which would make it too difficult to reply in the normal way: by quoting your arguments, and answering each one individually. Every time I try to quote any section of your argument, I am taken back to the Twitter screen. While that disappears, when I start typing, that gives no allowance for my highlighting and quoting any given part of your response. I do not know that X/Twitter has anything to do by with the glitch, because this has been happening a lot to me, here, lately-- to you? When it is only my last post that keeps reappearing-- while that slows things, and is annoying-- I am willing to forge on through it. But being taken to a different site, is where I draw the line. So I'll have to come back another time, to reply to your arguments (which I, most definitely, can do).
No, you were unsuccessful, in changing your settings. I would guess that the default setting would be that members can see your post history, not that you are "limiting" who can see it (whatever that means, exactly). So I would think, in your not paying of attention to those settings, you might have inadvertently set it this way. That, however, was only a tangent issue, in my reply. You had addressed me, ostensibly, to inform me that my opinion was not going to affect Israeli government policy-- as if I did not know that, and as though this was your argument to try to silence me. I had merely pointed out to you, that the whole point of a debate forum, is our interpersonal discussions-- not to be a means of delivering messages to national leaders. IOW, your point was moot. None of the threads on Ukraine, are going to get Putin to pull out, or are going to bring about a settlement of the conflict; yet those who share their opinions, in the these threads, still find the topic worthwhile to discuss. If you do not, that is only an argument against your own participation, not mine. You do, however, often post your views on things, which are not going to change the reality of those things (if you didn't recognize that). Therefore, your trying to tell me that my pointing out of Israel's seeming non-adherence to international standards, was not going to stop Israel from what it was doing, comes across as the last desperate argument, of a person with no legitimate point to contribute, to the debate.
