Will George Zimmerman be innocent or guilty for the death of Treyvon Martin?

Yeah.. its a problem.. Since GZ was carrying on NW he has created a liability for the HOA.. Read some Fl condo law.

The kicker here is that GZ was a renter in arrears... so he left the owners holding the bag for what he did.

Do you understand the concept of fiduciary relationship?

 

I am well aware of what a fiduciary relationship is. I think you will find that Florida statute 718.111 specifically refers to the fiduciary duties within a condominium and there is nothing remotely applicable.

(Oh dear the limey actually knows his law)

You have not demonstrated that he was a member of the NW at the time (merely asserted it). However since he was acting as a private citizen and not as an employee or owner in condominium then there is NO fiduciary duty to the HOA in any case. NW members are private citizens and have no special legal rights or restrictions only guidelines.

And even if you are correct in all that you say he has STILL not committed a criminal act.

It is not a crime to be a renter in arrears (much the pity as I am a landlord) and the landlord is not liable for actions commited by their tenants (thank god).

I am not interested if he was a nice guy or not I am only interested if he had commited a criminal act in the events leading up to the fatality and if there is actual compelling evidence throwing any light on the disputed minute.

 

There is a great deal of communication and training... training manuals , meetings and brochures as well as newsletters from the HOA and emails from GZ to the residents describing who is suspicious and should be "profiled".

Basically the liaison from the Seminole Sherrif's office was disgusted and bewildered that George was doing his own thing. Her name is Dorival.

 

Firstly I have amended my post that you quoted to refer to the relavnt statute on fiduciary duty.

I don;t see what relavance your point is about training manuals. No law has been broken. You are going round in circles clutching at straws.

 

I would agree, and who cares what Dorival is disgusted about? What possible part could she play in anything? The Bush has more relevance than her..

 

The HOA acknowledged George as the NW Capt and there were no other volunteers involved. The NW package has been posted and is still available on the net. Neither the HOA or the Mgmt company would have allowed George to call himself NW if they had known he carried because he has created liability for them..

 

Had Zimmerman stayed in his truck it would never have happened.
He is guilty not only of manslaughter, but also of stupidity.

 

That's not much of an argument,,,,,,

''Your Honor, he's guilty, he got out of his truck'',,,,,,,,,,,naaa..

 

I had not heard that GZ admitted grabbing TMs hoodie...If that is the case, it removes all doubt that Zimmerman initiated the altercation...If I am walking and some creep comes up on me from behind in the dark and grabs my jacket, my natural reaction would be to turn around and drill him in the nose for starters, as he has put me in a situation that could be a matter of life and death....If this is the case Zimmerman will go down for at least manslaughter and concievably 2nd degree murder...Please link the info that GZ admitted grabbing Trayvon's hoodie...

 

Read the findings of the ... what do they call it.. when you study trajectory, fabrics, stipling..

 

I believe your argument is even more worthless!
After all, it is the kid who died, not Zimmerman!
And the fact that Trayvon's hands didn't show ANY of Zimmerman's DNA (although Zimmerman's report that the kid used BOTH of his hands over his mouth and nose. . .bleeding nose. . .) would actually be more of a statement that the kid DID keep his hands to himself. . .or at the least that he DIDN"T put his hands anywhere on Zimmerman's face!

By the way. . .even the police stated that If Zimmerman had stayed in his truck nothing would have happened.

So. . .your belittling comment should also apply to the POLICE.

 

http://frederickleatherman.com/2013/01/28/we-are-having-a-great-discussion/#comment-64020

 

I'm not belittling I'm disagreeing, and I did not put fourth an argument how can you say it's worthless? LOL
All I said is Travon should not have hit him.

You see George does not have to put up an argument, they have to ''prove'' George to be guilty beyond a doubt,,follow? How can anybody not have doubt about this, how? Especially when you only need one out of six? Do you really think they will find a jury to all agree upon his guilt beyond any doubt? all six?
You yourself said he should have not gotten out of the truck, now is that solid proof he murdered him? That's why I said what I did, it's simply not enough.

The ONLY way George will get anything is if he is offered a deal, and that deal would be...''Plead guilty of man slaughter and you will only get a year and be out in six months,,or less''

They would have to be very lenient with the time,,,very. That way George may feel it's worth it, and not gamble. The prosecution would want this to show some kind of a win, and ease race relations.

 

Well, I believe that (could it be a Freudian slip?) you have misquoted the rule of "guilty beyond REASONABLE doubt," and instead you said: "guilty beyond ANY doubt!"

The difference in those two statements makes. . .all the difference!

I believe that a reasonable jury could certainly find Zimmerman guilty beyond any REASONABLE doubt," although they may still have "unreasonable" doubts.

Now, here is what this difference really means in court:

In fact, I believe that all of the lay Zimmerman's supporters without knowing this exactly realize that there is a difference, and I believe that it is because they realize this that they are so intent in muddying the water, and throwing dirt on the victim, and making hyperbolic statement about Zimmerman's "injuries," when. . .let's face it, Zimmerman merely had a bloody nose and a few scratch of unknown origin!

Nope. . .I believe Zimmerman has a very good chance to be found guilty. . .but only time will tell!

 

No. Those "bushes" are about 2 feet high, and very sparse. . .no way a 6 foot kid could "hide behind the bushes!" That CLEARLY Shows on all the videos of the Retreat. And. . .the "trees" were no more than 2 inches trunk base, and couldn't have hidden anyone either!

 

Which wouldn't happen if we didn't have so many guns walking around our neighborhoods!

 

I find those who are desperate to convict Zimmerman are clearly motivated by issues other than the actual events. They insist that Zimmerman is guilty because 'he is a wannabe'' he is supported by white extremists' 'he is a bully' 'He lied about his finances' indeed nothing really about the sequence of events.

It is quite clear to me that this event is merely a proxy for people to express a position on the 'race issue' in the USA. I have been utterly disgusted in the way that people have attempted to sway public opinion in ways such as: Calling Martin a 'child' and publishing pictires of him as a child rather than as a 17 year old, Using Martin's First name and Zimmerman's last, Actually editing the recordings (NBC) of the 911 call to make Zimmerman appear to be racially prejudiced (this was especially venal) and the absence of outrage about this libellious action from people who claim to act in the name of justice.

There seems to be an absence of an ability to understand concepts like 'proven beyond reasonable doubt', likeley scenario, possible scenario, actus rea, mens rea.

Zimmerman proffers a scenario where he follows Martin so he can accurately point him out to the Police. Martin is aware of Zimmerman following him , doubles back and ambushes him, which makes Martin the instigator of violence.


In my view this is certainly a possible scenario. Zimmerman certainly seems to be the sort of person who would follow someone to report them to the police. Martin posses the ability to ambush Zimmerman ( superior height, atheletic ability etc) and the amount of evidence we have on him appears to suggest that , at least, he identifies, at least partially with the violent gang subculture ( His self imposed nickname of 'no limits n1gg@' for instance), that is not to say that that proves Martin actually lives up to the persona he created for himself but it certainly makes it possible.

If someone can tell me why this scenario is NOT possible then please make that evidence known

- - - Updated - - -

He was legally entitled to get out of his truck. You have not demonstrated an illegal action. If stupidity was criminalised in the USA the vast majority of internet posters, most of your academia and at least one ex president would now be incarcerated, indeed perhaps you are posting from inside the correctional system.

 

he said that Martin came through the bushes and wasn;t hiding behind them. I am constantly amazed how you think your little lanaguge tricks are actually fooling anyone.

 

And Trayvon Martin was legally entitled to walk back to hishome in the rain while talking to his girl friend, even with his hoody up!

And Trayvon Martin was legally allowed to protect himself from a strange man who followed him in the night and accosted him without revealing who he was.


Your scenario is no more plausible than any other, including the one where Zimmerman accost the kid and the kid sees the gun, either because Zimmerman already has it in his hand, or because he goes to reach for his phone. . . .which seem unlikely, because why would he have put his phone away if he was waiting for a call from the police. . . .since he told the dispatcher to have the police call him when they got there?

You have not demonstrated an illegal action.

But YOU do not have the right according to the rules of this forum to insult me, by supposedly "subtle attacks" by implying that I am both stupid and in jail. You may think that you are "cute. . . . ". I personally have another term in mind, but I will not fall for your baiting.

Now. . . .who is stupid here?

 

Possibly, but that has nothing to do with him being guilty or not. He had that gun legally correct? So what law would you have that would have stopped him from having a Gun?
NO GUNS AT ALL?,,,wont happen and shouldn't. However as long as we are assuming, what would have happened if he did not shoot him? maybe George would be dead.

 

Come on, Flounder, give me a break! You do not really believe that!

Not only because Zimmerman was 40 lbs heavier, but also because the police arrived one minute after Zimmerman shot the kid!

Have you never been in a fight? Without a gun, this would have barely been a brawl! In fact, it is very likely that Zimmerman would not have been so keen on following Martin and accosting him!

 

really? So. . If that is all he met. . . You are telling me that he wasn't saying that Martin was hiding. . . Behind those 2 foot tall bushes, right? So why would have Martin been standing "behind" the bushes, if he intended to jump on zimmerman?

 

You know exactly what I meant, sorry I did not know we were holding court today, I've been on at least 3 juries. You still did not give any sound evidence other than he had a gun and got out of a truck.

However if you feel it will help the case for Travon make sure you slip the jury a note.....''flounder misquoted reasonable doubt, you must convict''
I'm sure it will make all the difference in the world...LOL

 

I would say that a 17 year old, unarmed kid, found dead from a single gun shot straight to the heart only minutes after he was reported as "suspect by the guy who shot him, is quite an evidence!

And the fact that the trajectory of the bullet was so precise, and in a right angle to the body, ehile they were suppose to be "struggling" is quite a coincidence. . . Or an unsolved mystery!

 

What they have is a fight with injuries and one man dead, and the man with the injuries and gun had a license to carry it. Anything other than self defense as claimed is pure conjecture.

Personally I feel it will be a hung jury, just like the vote above....George will walk.