Yes, Virginia There is a Hell -- Jesus Said So

No, it's a love and forgiveness doctrine. The way back to our Heavenly Father, Jehovah is through his son, Jesus Christ. That's all, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior and ask forgiveness for your sins. Very loving doctrine.

As opposed to muslims, that worship a vile pedophile and like nothing better than killing and torturing. allah is satan, seems very obvious to me. "you will know them by their fruits." What fruits have islam produced?
Pure D evil, hate and destruction where ever they go.

 

As you have already been shown - several times - Lucifer is NOT a translation of the word.

They SWITCHED one word for a TOTALLY DIFFERENT word!

 

You say it is a substitution and not a translation. How can you say that, when you have previously admitted that you do not speak that ancient language? To my knowledge, no-one living today has ever heard that ancient language being spoken as it was spoken in that ancient day.

Even amid all of your dicta regarding translations, you still have not been able to PROVE your claims. Even now, you have not proven anything.. just repeating the same old opinion.

 

The problem is that this isn't actually true.

It is a THIS or that doctrine.

Believe in Jesus and the Hebrew God - or - NO MATTER how good you are you get sent to HELL!

That is Gweedy the enforcer type "love."

Ya does what the boss says, or I torture you! But ya got a choice! LOL!

 

That is called Ultimate Sovereignty. Whether you desire to call it any type of Love or another... makes no difference. The Bible goes further and even exclaims that 'Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." Now how do you like them apples?

 

LOL! Yes I have proven it - and I translate the texts myself as well as look at multiple previous Bible translations - as I already told you.

But that is neither here nor there - the Proof is in the FACT that the word is NOT a NAME - nor is Lucifer a correct translation.

Hence obviously it can not be translated Lucifer! LOL!

Have you noticed that new modern Bible translations don't use LUCIFER?

That is because they know it is wrong!

Most modern English versions, including the NIV, NRSV, NASB, NJB and ESV, use "day star", "morning star" or some such, not "Lucifer."

 

LOL! You folks are the ones saying this is a doctrine of peace and LOVE!

Obviously - that isn't so!

 

It is a doctrine of peace and love. Peace and love for the Christians. Otherwise, it is spiritual warfare.

 

LOL! Conditional "love!"

The reality is that it is not warfare - spiritual - or otherwise - when people that have done no wrong - are sent to Hell - purely because they didn't believe in a particular God myth!

That if true - would be murder of the innocent!

 

Only from your perspective. But as you should have already guessed, the Christians are not even remotely concerned about your perspective. That belongs to you and you are the one who will have to give accounting for that perspective. Not us Christians.

 

And THIS is why I am not a Christian - and will never be one!

 

Well thank you for that admission. By admitting that you are not a Christian, then that is good enough to say that you serve the Devil, and that none of your words of interpretation of the Bible can be trusted.

 

You are not Christians because you constantly bash Christians, and they shut you down?

Oh, there is love fo your fellow man, but there is also something called accounability. The lack of the later is not love, not in the slightest - something you would know if you bothered to understand why Jesus if angry with the Pharisees and why he cleanses the Temple.

 

Well, let's take a self-critical look at ourselves as our Lord wants us to do. And if I do that I have to say if I wasn't lucky enough to be a Christian already the overwhelming insulting self-righeousness that's displayed by Christians in this forum would certainly put me off that faith for good.
If we want to bring people the good news of our faith maybe we should not act like utter pricks. Being hypocritical pricks is what Jesus criticized the pharisees of.

 

That is what we do. We bring them the good news of our faith, and we are attacked. No where does Jesus or God tell us to turn and run from those that are attacking. In fact read in Ephesians, the story about the armor of God. Only one part of the body is not protected... the back. It is not protected, because God and Jesus fully intend us to stand up to those that oppose the teachings of Jesus. Noting hypocritical about that sort of activity.

 

No, Jesus criticized teh Pharisees for the unpardonable sin. That is, they knew and recieved the blessing of God, and then turned away.

And my problem here is that Jesus was not always nice. Far from it. He is certainly not nice to people who attack God right in front him or otherwise mock them.

A civilized conversation is the goal, and that is not always possible. No one need to accept abuse, slander, and out right lies and then be called a hypocritical prick for standing up to it.

And that is my problem with the religion forum. Christians are apparently supposed to sit and take everything, or they are bad Christians. My point, we only need on cruxification for the gift of grace.

Love is expressed in many ways, but a lack of standards, accountability, and consequence is not one of them.

 

To be honest I have not read many of your posts lately. So it is well possible that you’ve been writing loads of posts oozing with the love and grace that God has revealed to us in Jesus Christ. Somehow I’m afraid though that most of your posts equaled this one which is a perfect example of what I meant.

The letter of Ephesians keeps speaking about aforementioned love and grace. In fact - if I have not miscounted - it mentions the word “love” 14 times and the word “grace” 12 times. Yet what you find worth mentioning is the word “armour” which appears twice.

Now it’s probably worthwhile to see in which context this word is used and what is meant with "armour". Posters like Ingledsva may not be believers and may often not share your or my views on the Bible, but I doubt very much they are the “devil“, nor do they represent “principalities„, „powers“, „the rulers of the darkness of this world“, „spiritual wickedness in high places“.
And even if you may suspect that some of the harsher views that are uttered on this forums are driven by such evil forces I don‘t think the metaphorical „armour of God“ that‘s supposed to protect us against them is an aggressive one. After all in the very same verses we are told to have our „feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace“ (Ephesians 6: 15).
If you preach that Gospel of Peace while throwing insults at people you should not be surprised if you lack credibility in their eyes. In fact the very letter of Ephesians gives very clear instructions on how we should communicate: Ephesians 4:

„29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
(*)30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(*)31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
(*)32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.“

Certainly not an easy path as I know all too well. I myself have tendencies to be a choleric, angry, self-opinionated
know-it-all as you may have seen in some of my posts. But that is nothing to be proud of nor is it justified by our Christian faith. Instead we should strive to be loving, caring and patient even when we‘re met with people that don‘t show these sentiments towards us.

 

Maybe you should reread the bits where and why Jesus got angry. I can't help thinking that quite often he would be angry with the Christians on this forum (and that includes me).

Nobody ever promised us that being a Christian is a walk in the park. We follow Christ who asked His father to even forgive those who nailed Him to the Cross.
That does not mean He condones a lack of standards. But when it comes to uphold such standards, for example standards of civilized communication, we're asked to start with ourselves. If somebody insults us we should not insult them back but hold out the other cheek.

And not everything you and others perceive as an insult actually is one. I've seen people going up the wall here when simply having been faced with scientific theories on the Bible that are actually taught at any accredited theological seminar. Even if one holds different beliefs/ refutes a theory it should be possible to calmly and reasonably point out why.

 

No one says that being Christian means you lose emotions.

I have seen several atheists use sceince as a weapon of injury, if if the theory is valid, the method of addrdessing it has been profoundly cruel.

Additionally, I have asked atheists more times than I can count to sit down and prove, scientifically, there is no God - and yet repeatedly, I have been called everything to a murderer, a rapist, you name it, while the same posters once again use sceince as an emotional weapon against Christians.

Christians do it too - we are human.

The point is - there is one standard of conduct. No one is excused their failings, and being Christian does not mean that you should be subjected to double standards and, quite frankly, abuse.

This is a debate forum, and the strongest idea wins. And in a straight up fair debate? Atheists have nothing - literally.

Do Christians get upset when their beliefs are challenged? Yep.

Do atheists? You bet.

Why would Jesus only be mad at one the person's behavior?

 

Compare my join date and that of your own. When you reach that same length of time I have had on this forum, then come back to me and talk about patience and caring. The people on this forum prove through their conduct that they are not interested in any amount of patience or caring being shown by another person. In fact, such traits having been shown will only be construed as a weakness and then there will be opportunity to twist your words to mean whatever they want your words to mean, and they will KNOW that you won't complain because you are so patient and caring. I ask you. Was Jesus patient and caring when he entered the temple and found the moneychangers corrupting the temple with their vile activities?

 

Nothing against a heated discussion. But you know: whover you debate in a forum on whichever topic, especially topics of faith, it's always advisable to take a chill-pill first ( metaphorically of course - no need to pump yourself up with Baldrian or worse )

As for atheists: I've met many in my life and I'm still surrounded by loads. Some are great people to have a civilized conversation with, some are obnoxious twerps. Fact is you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, some of us believe in Him, some of us don't. In my experience, the best way to silence even the most obnoxious twerps among atheists is to give them a big warm smile, just like the one Desmond Tutu displays in the beginning of this video:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_5d-ZmUA9Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_5d-ZmUA9Q[/ame]

Now I have to admit atheists find it hard to use science as a weapon against me and my faith. Because not being a creationist, nor having a problem with evolution and alltogether finding science vastly interesting I have never found it to be contradicting my faith. And I find guys like Kent E. Hovind just as ridiculous as the average atheist does.Thus I probably don't make for a good target and may be speaking from a comparably comfortable position.
But still: should you be a creationist and should we ever get into a heated discussion about creationism etc. and should I then (God beware) get insolent, insulting, unfriendly, mean, etc. the best way to stop me from doing that would be to give me a big warm smile while explaining your beliefs. (Won't make me share your beliefs, but will make it very hard for me to be rude to you about them)

 

Jesus was certainly not tolerant of people who abused the Lord's name and place of worship to make money for themselves. A lesson money-loving real or self-proclaimed Christians forgot all too easily.

To take this story as an excuse for your own impatience when you feel insulted in this forum - however understandable this impatience may be - is far fetched to say the least.

 

When you give them a smile and explain your beliefs ... and they call you a rapist ... its not time to smile anymore. Its time to point out that it is inappropriate to call someone a rapist based solely on their religion.

It is wrong to say, "Oh, you are an atheist? Clearly you are a rapist. You cause war too ya know!"

It is wrong to say, "Oh, you are Hindu? Clearly you are a rapist."

Comments like that are simply wrong. And yes, when people call people these things, it gets them upset.

Do we always respond perfectly? Nope.

Should someone point out when we do not? Yep.

The point being that standards are important.

 

If somebody called me a rapist because of my religion that would probably make me laugh - because the claim is plainly ridiculous. I would suggest you defy stuff like that with calm arguments, should be easy. Of course there are loads of people here who are immune to arguments and who also lack basic courtesy (both among Christians and Atheists). My suggestion would be not to follow suit. Just don't feed the trolls (even though it may be fun here and there )
I've been called a terrorist Islamist on this forum, the antichrist, a heathen etc. I know I'm not and it's obvious to any sane reader that such claims are foolish. So why should I get overly upset about them?

 

Tell that to Jesus when you meet Him face to face... how impatient He was... tell Him that He should have been rebuked.

People saying that my Lord, Jesus the Christ, was a practitioner of sorcery is the same thing as going in and defiling the temple of God. Whether you like that notion or not, is absolutely irrelevant to me. If you want to be the pacifist, then go ahead... but don't expect me to sit here and allow people to attempt their mockery of my Lord and King. Seemingly you are not a Soldier of King Jesus. That is OK too, because we all have different stations in our mission.