The Swedes continued to shop and buy and became a magnet to other countries in lockdown. So feel free to try again!
Not quite as supreme as the idiocy to be found in those who happily believe known liars without asking questions.
Sweden's economy was harmed, as is every country heavily dependent in international import/export trade. (Another reason the whole world needs to "restart".) The ramp in cases in Sweden has already died down. Testing is a good excuse for what really happened with all the June spikes which started shortly after the U.S. Memorial Day "events".
Sweden performed objectively worse, both from a pandemic and an economic, point of view as compared against its closest geographical neighbors - Norway and Finland. And as I noted, they are still nowhere close to the level of exposure that is normally associated with "herd immunity." So their model was not a success by nearly any measure. But there are whole host of reasons why Sweden's model would not work in the United States, including geographical, population, cultural, and access to medical care differences. As a very basic example, a significantly higher percentage of Sweden lives in a house by themselves as compared against the United States.
You made the claim that almost all of Belgium had been exposed - you prove it. But if you want my citations for the Sweden population exposure numbers. Here is the link for 3.7% claim from early May: https://mrc-ide.github.io/covid19estimates/#/details/Sweden Here is an estimate for a 10% claim for Stockholm (the hardest hit area of Sweden) from June 18th: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se...ar-efter-genomgangen-covid-19-hos-blodgivare/
Then it is a good thing that the percentage of Americans who say they trust Donald Trump on the virus has dropped into the 20s.
The notion that Japan is a success story here is false. They are in the midst of a 2nd wave of cases which rivals or exceeds the first.
Exactly. The situation in Japan is yet another FAKE Narrative that has been circulated in the "Covid is No Big Deal" Bubble.
The Netherlands introduced intelligent lockdown and decided to open noord Brabant first as it was the most affected by the virus. The notion being that they would have the largest number of exposures. Herd immunity. That’s reasonable. And it borders Belgium. Now provide citation for your claim that most Belgians have not been exposed. Everyone needs to be exposed so we can move beyond this nonsense!
There are no confirmed cases of reinfection. There are a handful of suspected cases but they can be explained by false positives/negatives of various tests used. Journalists have taken liberties where they ought not to have done so.
You are surely aware that you are more likely to die as the result of starting your car and driving it. Why the fixation on this virus and how can you feel comfortable criminalizing going to work and venturing out of your home?
My bringing Sweden into the conversation was in response to the earlier citation of Belgium's results. By all statistical evidence of these two countries with extreme differences in response (voluntary actions versus hard-line government authoritarianism) Sweden has done better on all metrics, including deaths per 100k. No one knows with certainty what level of herd immunity has been acquired as antibody tests have been ascribed as being notoriously unreliable. We do know that the virus is exceptionally contagious, particularly so after the most recently documented mutation. People who have been exposed and contracted asymptomatic cases are not reflected in any samples of antibody testing, even if the tests were accurate. A reason Sweden's model would not work in the U.S. is that we would not euthanize the elderly who need ICU beds. We give anyone an ICU bed regardless of the odds of them surviving (rightfully so). However, Sweden's voluntary rate of self-confinement and distancing practices is estimated at around 1 in 3 people. The U.S. certainly has at least 33% of people who are following social distancing and mask-wearing guidance, either voluntarily or by force. The "living alone" numbers are different, I'll give you that one, but the U.S. still has over 1 in 4 single households which is significant.
you can re-get any virus, the question is, will your immune system be strong enough to fight it off, even after a vaccine, you 'get' the virus, your body just has a better ability to fight it off
Which sort of proves the original proposal of this thread. Lockdowns only delay the end results instead of saving lives. There is value in trying to slow the spread only in the attempt to control hospitals from becoming overburdened, because we have seen when that happens, people do needlessly die. Otherwise, nature is going to do what nature does.
When millions are prevented from being able to work under the notion of it saves lives let’s do the numbers. Even if every death could have been prevented (which I highly doubt) through lockdown and the world economy was affected by paying for this in about 10 trillion dollars of spent or lost revenue that comes to about 15 million dollars per saved life. And much more if you assume most of these lives could not have been saved. Is it worth it?
You made the claim regarding Belgium; now you're trying to pull a reverse onus. So much for integrity
Nice try. The Netherlands did intelligent lockdown to allow for herd immunity and is doing very well from that approach. The Dutch aren’t pansies afraid of their own shadow.
The world is about to experience an economic crash far worse than the Great Depression (which impacted the world). So what did we learn from the Great Depression? The hardships created a world of isolationists, and fascist countries and dictators sprang up as well as vast Socialist programs here in the U.S. (which we can barely fund today). The economic depression and fight for resources in most every country eventually led to World War II. After WWII, a New World Order occurred which led to the United States becoming a dominant superpower. After less than 100 years of political mismanagement of our relationships with foreign countries, we are unlikely to remain a significant power when things shake out and we see the "New" - New World Order, post-Covid. China is the country which is best prepared to dominate as the next global economic power....if we Americans do not get back to work post haste. This threat of having the world fall under communist rule is largely what concerns many conservatives today. It's not that we do not care about the loss of lives today. It's that we care about maintaining the freedom and comfort which Americans enjoy. We wish to "conserve" the land of almost endless opportunity for future generations of Americans.
Done with the worry? So, you haven't heard some of the latest news about this brand new virus, including the part where people who already had it are getting sick again. Don't take that mask off just yet.
What will happen if the west falls under Chinese authoritarianism is that the US will be blamed for allowing it to happen as the left is terrified of confronting the Chinese directly cause they are too scary. Easier and safer to blame the Americans!
Not a dispute, just not proven beyond doubt, and research continues. There have been a few cases, under investigation but it does look like this virus can reinfect. They have determined without doubt that most people who recover have anti-bodies that disappear after several weeks. This virus is new and unprecedented. They learn new things about it daily.
