Part II What's holding Black America back

I've seen what you've attempted to communicate with 'words' before, Frank.

Again, we just need to disagree, right here.

Perhaps we'll see eye-to-eye later.

 

you are not understanding... I don't care if they like hip hop per se, I care that they themselves reported it is more important than grades.

I am not the one who did the research, as Dr. Ferguson why he picked on Hip Hop

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no , you just rant, and go away, the adults are talking

 

What you will never understand, that is beside the point, white kids are not valuing it over grades.

 

So, how about you do another one of your little case studies as to the cause.

Answer: You don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*). You just want a way to pin America's problems on black people.

If you really care so much, volunteer in the black community. Otherwise, spare us. No one on here agrees with you.

 

That kids with A grades lose self esteem?? No, idont think its a problem, its natural. Nobody wants to be a geek at that age.

 

you kidding? TV is a wasteland full Kartrashian role models. I have never seen any useful white role models that youth watch.

the surveys showed that black kids know education is important, that puzzling. They apparently don't need a male role model to tell them that, but they chose the alternative anyway. I agree that black men need to stay and raise their kids, but that's question begging since they are the problem we are discussing.

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then how come white kids esteem went up?

 

When the criminal justice system unfairly treats black men, it removes them from the family picture. When they go through the "correctional" process, they have a tougher time finding employment because A) negative stereotypes associated with black men and B) an established criminal record. Therefore, they either stay unemployed or return to the streets. Is this a difficult concept to grasp?

This affects blacks disproportionately to whites, because whites are awarded better lawyers, more lenient sentences, and aren't profiled by the police. Whites are more likely to get off with a slap on the wrist.

Now, find a case study to disprove all of that.

 

Harvard says hip hop culture is part of the cause, why is it suddenly 'my' case study?

It is a problem, everyone knows that. What in particular are you disagreeing with me about? I've staked no position

 

maybe they are more insecure and need to be graded to achieve this esteem.

 

of course harvard would say that, its a bastion of white supremacy, something hip hop actively opposes.

if you want to listen to adults talking about it check this out, an english professor says it is modern day poetry, educate yourself and if youre genuine you will watch the whole show but then again...lets see if your genuine, ill be asking questions.

[video=youtube;Y3X59BHLC2U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=Y3X59BHLC2U[/video]

 

I don't need a bunch of Harvard philosophers to tell me the problems in the black community. Hip hop culture is a symptom, not the problem. Hip Hop culture started because of the problems, not the other way around.

Socioeconomic disparity is the problem. My challenge to you is that if you want to be taken seriously by anyone, you back up your controversial allegations about black people with some solution proposals.

I can talk (*)(*)(*)(*) about fat people all day, but if I'm not a poster child for fitness or working in the fitness industry to better the health of my fellow citizens, I just sound like an angry discriminatory prick.

 

There are different fields of "science".

Are you saying that you know as much about all of this as the following people?:

Dr. Melissa Harris Perry

Dr. Anthony Campolo

Tim Wise

Really, I'm not comparing myself to any of these people... but I would compare certain things they have said to the ideas/notions that you would attempt to communicate here.

Just remember, that YOU aren't the only person who has been around the block a few times, over time.

 

lets walk through this. Young black male knows grades are important, but choses hip hop culture instead as a way of life. This choice typically happens before law problems, or he would not have been in school to perform the survey. Later gets in trouble with the law and can't find work because of legal problems and low grades. Somewhere in there he decided to bang some woman and make a kid and start the cycle over again. It's no longer a stereotype problem when some 40% do this, its reality.

ok, Harvard says hip hop culture influences the early choices before they get in trouble, why not a liberal cure, tax it out of existence?

There's no denying they commit the crimes, so letting that go isn't a solution. I am totally in favor of drug legalization which might help, or it might hurt. The fact they are doing drugs isn't helpful. The problem is to make the best choices before the crap hits the fan, and that's where you are going to tell me its all my fault...

 

Frank, you don't have to check the content of my 'rants'; but there are millions of Americans who can relate to all that I'm saying.

I understand that you don't have to agree with me nor pay attention to me.

Part of what I intend to do here, is share MY thoughts. If I debate them (and I typically do, in my own ways)... so be it.

 

Because I deal with black youth as you call them on a daily basis, so I will take my own life experience over yours and Prof. Ferguson all day.

 

whats your solution frankie? just give us a quick idea huh

 

Harvard philosphers? All I can say is WTF? These people assembled this program to, unlike you, solve the problem, not stand around and (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about this and that supposed wrongdoing. They understand that economic disparity is not solved by complaining about whites and because all the liberal programs to date have failed. They understand that to solve a problem you have to understand the problem.

I am quoting and studying them, and you tell me I must back up their controversial allegations if I am to be taken seriously. Your claim is that only you can say what is and isn't acceptable to discuss. Liberal sewage at its worst, I do not accept your word as final authority on the matter.

 

Would YOU walk through this with a young Black kid? If you cannot, then why not?

Why do YOU think that is the case? How can you help with that?

That makes little sense.

This is shallow, uninformed BS you are relating. Things are far more complex than you are explaining here. Come on.

Do you realize that your stereotyping here, contributes to what YOU see as the problem? Do you think that 99.98% of what you are saying does not apply to MANY White Americans?

I know it does... I've worked closely with young people for over 35 years.

Frank, it's not only "Black" people with these problems. And a more universal approach is needed to overcome the problems which takes people of ALL colors in America to the very places that concern you.

What in the world is wrong with your sense of social remedies??!! What you just said there, is completely nonsensical. So, what other forms of entertainment should we "tax out of existence"? Can we start with "Duck Dynasty"? Please?

That "they" you are talking about, includes the 86% of White Americans, who make other White Americans their victims. So, what the hell are you REALLY talking about here??!!

No. We cannot simply allow just any/all drug to be uncontrolled. We DO need to work on better ways of handling people affected by the various substances, including alcohol.

Of course.

Frank, you seem to think there is some solution for African Americans, that does not apply to virtually ALL of American society. Black people are not aliens, they are human beings just as all the others who are Americans. The problems we see in White America have bled into Black America... and so on. People are in this TOGETHER, and those who do not realize that are a part of the problem.

Time for you and many others to WAKE THE HECK UP. As smart as you/I may be, there is still more for us all to learn.

 

respectfully, that's what everyone says, that's what religious people tell me, 'just trust that I am correct'

I don't trust any one man's word, I collect information and make my own conclusions. Prof. Ferguson's gang has data and a large program, you have your experiences. Maybe you are right, I hold that out as possible especially since I am sure the Harvard gang is liberal and you are not, but for now call me skeptical

 

jonie baby, your drive-bys grow tedious. I'll answer but please leave if this all you have.

Certainly not government mentors, what a god awful disaster that would be.

I would seriously consider segregration by sex and early segregation into vocations. If one can fix a car, weld, plumb, you can get a job.

As to their motivations, nobody can fix that but them. If not fixed, economic disparity should be accepted as a fact of life and not fixed with redistribution.

 

Well Frank, I offered you a list of learned social experts... who can expound upon this topic far more appropriately than virtually ANY of us sharing here today.

I don't blame you for arguing a bit with people sharing views/knowledge in an internet forum... but please, try to accept that the problem is as vast and complex as we could imagine.

The simple and often wrong answers you are relating don't help. There ARE better approaches to these problems than you are suggesting in this forum.

 

Yep. You are being as real as can be.

Heck, I wish he'd go out and help White kids with the same exact problems. (They are certainly out here.)

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Ha!! I didn't want to be a geek... but I was.

 

What is wrong with you guys? seriously? I am presenting Prof. Fergusons results for discussion and all you want to do is slam me.

I am NOT getting into an expert comparison war, I am not going to get into your game of race baiting rants, and I am certainly not taking you as some sort of expert. The purpose of this thread was to seriously examine the Harvard results, not examine me or have a flame fest.

You don't like the Harvard approach? fine, but alternatives should be expressed in the strict context here, not some general rant about 'you know better'


as to Ferguson, he seems to have credibility within the liberal circles

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/14/education/14winerip.html?pagewanted=all

and you all know so much more, you self proclaimed expert anonymous internet posters, right on

 

Wow!! I proof-read that (post #16) one horribly!! (Too much haste.)

Here's what it should have read:

Culturally, I could be as White as I am Black; those who know me realize that.

I'm not ashamed of my appearance... but it is far beyond troubling that some of my fellow Americans seek to perpetuate fear, hatred, anger, separation and violence... via racist views and social approaches.

And at this point, I think it is proper to hold such actors in strong contempt (spiritually, morally, socially and intellectually). They are DESTRUCTIVE people, that kind of person would scatter THORNS in their own resting place and SABOTAGE the peace and well-being of this nation itself... to satisfy their virtually insatiable LUST for a type of EVIL which many rejected as 'children'.

Apologies to anyone trying to make sense of the original.

 

If the liberals would just read up on the Pygmalion Effect and stop treating black people like they're incompetent little children, I think most people would be amazed at how quickly the racial gap in most things would close. But ever the ignorant benevolents, the left wing has to obey their feelings regardless of what their logical brains might tell them to the contrary.