Why you can’t argue with a conservative.

The OP is evidence of why you can't argue with a liberal. They know so much that isn't true.

 

But what if a liberal is correct? How then could you learn something you didn't know before?

 

There's no arguing with anyone that doesn't have a willingness to rigorously test their own assumptions.

There's no arguing with anyone that doesn't have the capacity to convincingly steel man their opponent's argument.

 

We are talking about a specific subject, which is why I diverged from the all encompassing thread title and put on the qualifier of "your argument". He is NOT correct in this argument, so your question is moot.

Is there a point you were trying to make that I am missing?

 

Governor Jon Bell Edwards!

 

Mainly because he admitted it was presumption and not fact.

 

Maybe one who is just as pro-life as he is and was always pro-life. One who has never even been tempted to say any of this



Or this


And that sir, is a very long list indeed.

 

Because Trump hasn't done anything wrong.

NEXT!

 

Was it about a specific subject though? Your response wasn't. If it was just about this argument, you wouldn't have needed to add "(the left)". This changes the 'you' to 'left'. So your point reads the left can't argue with conservatives because they are being overemotional. Now this might seem fine in of itself, but doesn't claiming to be side that is rational seem to miss the point of what an argument is about? Logos exists yes, but so does pathos as well.

 

No, because it's utter hogwash.

 

What you and a few other prominent anti Trumpers don't get is the fact you see what you want and so do we. One other poster has askes hundreds of timed "why don't you defend Trump?" The answer is simple, we don't have to.

 

Emotions can be wrong people. Never fix your point of view from an emotional standpoint, it will only wreak havoc (much like we are seeing right now from the left) on both the people and the government.

One major stumbling block is emotions. Liberals tend to tie their belief construct (ideology) in with their emotions, effectively entangling themselves on just about every political issue with an emotional perspective (and in reality this has lead to literally millions of paradoxes that the left wing now finds itself in) Since emotion is valued more (to most liberals) than rational or wise mind thought, you tend to lose sight of the truth and also lose sight of the vision for America laid out by our Founding Fathers. Versus a conservative, who tends to think more from the wise and/or rational mind perspective. Liberals are usually the first to bring up or call out "racism" and they are usually the one who gets offended first. They are well known for blocking the opposing debater after being annihilated with facts.

What does this all mean? Well, it means that until the liberal left starts formulating policy and opinion rooted in the wise or rational mind they have absolutely zero credibility. This goes without saying for the democratic elites.

 

WOW....This is just silly. You must have far too much time on your hands.

At least you inadvertently did answer my question, and that answer is a resounding no, you did NOT have a larger point that you were trying to make. Apparently you were just looking to aimlessly bicker.

 

One thing I have noticed is that if you meaningfully respond to one issue.... they change the subject.... and if you respond to that one.... they change the subject again.

 

@ImNotOliver

I think you need to step away from politics and come back with fresh eyes.

 

Is this called 'deflection'?

 

You could not argue with him if you wanted, he has abandoned thread!

 

Are you under the delusion that congress only does stuff people are interested in? I would say the vast majority of stuff they do (and appropriate money for) is stuff that I and most people are unfamiliar with and are not interested in

but, let’s assume that you are making a serious point
Is it your claim that the people of the USA were familiar with, and broadly supportive of the this aid to Ukraine? I certainly was unaware, and mostly gave that Ukrainian aid zero thought.... did you?

 

Sincerely, please move on and bicker elsewhere. I am not interested.

 

Pro-Life is truly a Conservative Value, but not the only Value. Picking one while ignoring the others proves just the one. Trump, has done nothing but make my access to the protections of the Second Amendment even more difficult out where I live. He's done absolutely nothing real and substantive to protect that. But, again, that just one issue. On the whole, Trump is no Conservative and there is no question about it. There's no need to even argue the point given all the Trump has done thus far to prove that he's no keeper of Genuine Conservative Values.

Trump is a Self-Ordained Opportunist who denies reality and has no moral compass. He's ethically depraved and a pathological liar. He's characterless and completely depleted of integrity. The only principles and priorities he adheres to are those that benefit his angle. Ergo, he's a mater of self-promoting trigonometry.

Don't get me wrong. There are qualities in Trump to be admired. His tenacity for never quitting is legendary. However, when you are dead wrong on so many issues, never quitting becomes far more a liability than a positive personal characteristic. The Dude is a walking Albatross around his own neck. How the hell do you accomplish that? How does one become their own Albatross wrapped around their own neck? I have no idea how you accomplish that - but our Donald J. Trump, is exactly that to the Nth degree possible.

He's his own Albatross that found a way to wrap himself around his own neck. That takes enormous contortionist talent:



Amazing talent. Just not fit for Leadership in the White House that's all. Great for the circus, however.

 

Yes I think that there would be an obvious motive if you could get some one to smear an opponent

Do you really believe that trump was concerned about foreign corruption

Btw, the state department has been working to reduce corruption in Ukraine for a long time.... and the issues that trump raised Were not on their list. An obvious way to address these issues would be to go to the people working on that issue In the state department and ask for an update

I am saying their are cases where a surgeon wants a more successful practice... and in some cases Biases their medical judgement to accomplish that.... which is why it is often a good idea to get a second opinion

Yes, you get a second opinion from someone who will not benefit from the answer he gives you

I disagree.

Yes if the motive is to benefit the American people
That was not so in this case

No I am not

Which crime?

Let’s take an example
Trump was running for president... Obama was president
He could have manipulated foreign leaders to announce investigations into trump
He could have encouraged that investigation by withholding aid
And it would be the smart thing to agree to open the investigation

would that be acceptable to you?

 

The right wing media works in much the same way. Listen to any right wing pundit and a great deal of what they say vis a vis liberals and the left will be mostly fabricated, malicious, and derogatory.


Are you sure?

 

The next act in this American tragedy is the development of alternate possibilities. Alternate possibilities currently in vogue for The Party Of Trump is -- wouldn't it be possible that the Ukraine tampered with the 2016 election? Not Russia. This is an alternate realty greatly favored by Putin and the POT. The POT is rapidly moving to sell this to the American public. Of course, they don't have to sell the base, they're already there. Isn't it a possibility?

Well, I suppose it's a possibility that some special person could fly from Atlanta to Minneapolis by flapping their arms, but what is the probability. Not too high. So what is the probability that all seventeen United States intelligence agencies and the Mueller investigation are all wrong -- it wasn't Russia at all, it was the Ukraine? That is highly improbable so one would need to invent a conspiracy to rationalize it. The POT has a million of them. But what is reality, what are the facts? The fact is that it was Russia and no amount of spin can deny the facts, without a conspiracy involving thousands of professionals and seventeen intelligence agencies. Much like the conspiracy that no aircraft were involved in 9/11, George Bush just sprinkled some dynamite around.

Given free rein brings us to the latest right wing belief expressed publicly by Rick Perry -- Trump is the chosen one, chosen by God in His divine plan. There is more to this (and more participants) but we'll undoubtedly hear more soon. Even more astonishing, the POT's latest diversion is that Democrats are the anti-Christ. We will hear more about this demonic possession soon. So where does this leave us?

We are left with a political party so off the rails it defies description. Kelly Ann Conway was right at the outset, there are alternate facts. This escape from reality, that seventeen intelligence agencies were correct, allows the current POT to believe almost anything, like that person flying to Minneapolis. Why is next one wonders, huddling around a fire casting animal bones to foretell the future? A country that travels to insanity will soon cease to exist as a country. There won't be a war or anything dramatic, America will simply fade into the background as China, Russia, and the EU the the reins.

 

As usual- you have it wrong. Argument is about winning, not being right. To be right, you have to look at all things with the same standards and judgment- and you have to discuss, not argue, using those standards and judgment. I don't think Trump is perfect- just the best choice at the moment and the man for the job. And though Trump is far from perfect- but I'd bet the same goes for you, as it does for me and the rest of America. How perfect are we? Half our lifetime commitments to marriage end in divorce. Of those that don't, a great many are living in hell to avoid being divorced- avoid admitting that the marriage has failed by pretending it has not. Infidelity is common, not exceptional. How many people cheat on their taxes if they can? How many claim to be honest, but lie in some way everyday? Yet you think a person elected to the office must be something different, something perfect. You also hate perfection; think it is unfair to expect people to rise above their petty problems and work together- because somebody else should do that first. It's like CNN has been your nanny and tutor.

Here's a very good example of how the bias of the press works, and how the left gets sucked into the mindset of hate- Another member here posted this earlier, and it's spot-on.

Melania and Hillary, dressed in virtually identical fashion, reviewed by the same fashion writer. Yet you read the copy and you find two diametrically opposed statements that are direct political conclusions.
Hillary looks presidential and is a dream come true in white; Melania is a scary statement and reminder that in the GOP, white is always right. Even a lowly fashion critic finds a way to turn equal images into slander and bias.

 

I've noticed the same thing as a method of debate, but that doesn't really have anything to do with your comment that I was responding to. What you said was, "Proud skeptics are often just resolutely closed minded." I wanted to know how to tell the difference and for some odd reason you deflected about someone changing the subject.

Weird, you changed the subject to people changing the subject to avoid talking about the original subject.