"Atheism Produces Evil on Incredible Levels"

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Qchan, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gays can't have bastards.

    But you know, technically Jesus was a bastard child. For his parents were not married. At least that is how the culture he was in, would have seen it.
     
  2. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37,493
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Even if gay marriage resulted in more "bastards" (and I'm not advocating more marriage-less births, as such), it would still not be right to take away people's FREEDOM to enjoy the same legal rights as you enjoy! You seem to think you are better than they are, just based upon which orifice you prefer to play with. Freedom trumps ancient superstitions.

    Similarly, I would not like to see less legal rights for Muslims, as such.
     
  3. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37,493
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Or just maybe, just maybe, Mary lied about sex to not get stoned to death. Btu on further thought, nah, that's never ever ever happened in all of human history (lying about sex), so I'm pretty sure the Biblical account is 100% true. My mistake.
     
  4. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course that god does not exist. But billions of people believe he does. And they go about killing one another, in his name. The absurdity of it always fascinated me, and scared me a bit too.

    Look, people will believe in almost anything to save their own egos, their self images, that they love so dearly. That is why organized religion is the biggest confidence game ever run. You have a captive audience because of fear. Fear is a great driver. Look at the fear mongering today, that is used to increase war spending. You can lead men around by their noses, if you appeal to human fear.
     
  5. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Again, I inform you that modern hard science says the Unconscious mind does tell us this stuff, which it has learned by experiences as a Collective State of Unconsciousness always with the living body of humans.

    Not only does the Collective Unconscious mind KNOW about these things, but it has LIVED through the very experiences itself.


    The Collective Unconscious mind is the mysterious Third Eye which the ancients recognized.
    It has actually been there, and done that, as man has come and gone individually.
    The same Third Eye has been with every generation of mankind, and has known all things from life experiences over hundreds of thousand years.
     
  6. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37,493
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Attention Jesus: I'm afraid if your followers approve of slavery then you've failed quite miserably to provide your followers with moral guidance, as you sought to do.

    Dave, what would god/Jesus have had to have done, hypothetically here of course, for you to reject him? I'm really curious. What would he have hypothetically have to have done?
     
  7. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Could be. I never bought into much that was said about JC, for so much of it was borrowed. I just think he was an enlightened human being, born into the jewish culture. And that is all. So yes, he was different, but no different from Krishna, Lao Tzu, or the Buddha. These men seem to appear and try to teach people to look within, not without, to find whatever they have. Then the people around them, misunderstand them, these men die, and a religion is created around them. And that is when the corruption begins. And no one ever discovers what these men had.
     
  8. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37,493
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    After seeing many many of your posts, I believe you are probably a deeper thinker than I am, and I admire that. I'm learning things from you, even if I might occasionally disagree with you.
    I can say with all honesty that I find you morally and intellectually superior to Jesus/Moses/Mohammad.
     
  9. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Again, you attack the Bible without even recognizing that Mary MUST have been the source if this tale.
    Why would she say all this stuff if she had had sexual relationships?

    Who else except Mary would have known??

    If it was not a miracle, (like those reported to science people recently, where women claim they got preg without sex), then maybe is was hot petting which she never suspected of being the culprit?
     
  10. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37,493
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The fact that none of the Bible, or later religious writings (like the Nag Hammadi library), about Jesus occurred remotely close to the time he was actually alive shows that his divine status was likely just legend that grew as stories were passed along verbally...and of course studies show how unreliable that can be. But yes, he may have been a decent moral teacher at the time, but who knows.
     
  11. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    So when Christ said "Truth is our lord," you thought he was like Loa Tzu or Buddha?
    You don't believe that Truth is lord and explains the god of Reality to us??
     
  12. Vicariously I

    Vicariously I Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Of course not and he's not actually a he. The hyper intelligent firecracker is the universe. Before the big bang it was virtually nonexistent and after the big bang it is existence at least as we have come to know it. We are a part of the hyper intelligent firecracker and as existence spreads so does it/our understanding of that which wasn't but now is. :cool:
     
  13. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37,493
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    People who had sex outside of marriage got stoned! (And I'm not talking Robert Downey Jr. kind of "stoned".)
    Or she was trying to protect the person who, say, RAPED her.
    Or she was trying to give her child a much much MUCH better story than "he was a bastard"....something that you seem to be against, oh, a little bit, right Dave? :)

    Christianity is built on a lie. Jesus is not the son of god, and is not divine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This Jesus is no more credible than Zeus, or Buddha, or Thor, or Loa Tzu, etc.
     
  14. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    But John wrote to the seven churches which were actually in Asia Minor, and John sent them the Revelation, too.

    It turns out that the Jews have discovered that Revelation is actually a totally Jewish writing, except for the first 3 chapters.
    Hence Revelation turns out to be 200 years older that Christ, at least.

    *...but the apocalypse has become especially important to Jewish students since it has been discovered by Vischer (see bibliography) that the main apocalypse actually belongs to Jewish apocalyptic literature.

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12712-revelation-book-of
     
  15. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    There's reality, science, and intellectual consistency, and then there's the idea of reality, science, and intellectual consistency. Religion would be a very honorable endeavor as well if people truly upheld things like self-sacrifice, love, compassion, service, forgiveness, and not seeking compensation for these things in turn. However, like the former things listed, it's not these moral virtues, but the idea of morality that people follow. The idea is like the "all natural" brand on some products- complete bullpoop, but because people believe in the idea and project that onto the product, they buy into it.

    However, the sciences are also recrutied into these problems as well. Science is just information and is not good or evil in itself, but the way it is applied leads to good things and appalling things. We tend to excuse the appalling things by pointing at the good things and don't realize that our soceity really doesn't get any better. It's just the goods and bads scale to the point where we are always ping-ponged between the opportunity to benefit from great things, and the likelihood we will be victimized by the worst. We could cure cancer any day now, but we could also face nuclear holocaust at a moments notice also.
     
  16. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Mary never told anyone until AFTER Jesus was crucified!

    1) She probably would have been stoned.

    That is, if she had old anyone, which she did not according to the NT.
    And, in those days, many young girls were getting preg by Roman soldiers they flirted with,... according to the Talmud.

    2) Truth IS our guide and Lord today.
    We see even here, with you using lies while I keep answering back with the truth.
    Truth is the basis of modern technical success, too.

    Truth does tel us what he Reality actually is, so sane men a-can live inside Reality.
     
  17. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    From just my own experience, and that is all I will ever trust, for it is direct, not from someone else, I have clearly seen what ego consciousness is, and how it works, and that it is an illusion, created by the brain being capable of storing experience. And this is the consciousness that fears, that wants to gratify itself, in all manner of ways, even hurting others in the process.

    But then by watching it, attentively, an understanding comes, and that understanding clears up something. It allows the ego to work when it is called for, in getting by in daily existence, but when it is not needed, it seems not be there at all. But something else is. What? I dunno but it has a flavor of a sacredness and an immensity. And if one lives in that non ego state, even if for a few minutes here, a few minutes there, or for many minutes say at bedtime, whatever it is, it orders ego consciousness, once it comes back in a reaction to the outside stimulus. But it has also changed, It is aware of what it is doing, at all times, and being aware, it will not seek gratification at all, but that does not mean it does not experience joy and happiness. It just doesn't chase after it.

    When ego consciousness is not there, not moving, there is another Consciousness, and it is this consciousness IMO, that manifests the universe from moment to moment. It is the Creator. And while the ego consciousness will die with the brain, the Consciousness that manifested it, is eternal, timeless, and pure. Once this non ego consciousness can manifest, it changes man, for it is such an extraordinary intelligence, and it is love and beauty.

    And I need no man to tell me this, no book, no scientist, no expert or authority, for if not experienced in the here and now, personally, it has no value at all. What someone else, a book, would tell me will not take me to that Consciousness. It has to happen in one's own consciousness, and without an authority whatsoever. People cling to authority, and that keep them from doing what must be done.

    I see no need for the way you are laying this out, with your diagrams, the ideas from other men. That helps no one. This is a path that only the individual must walk, and no other can help in this. One can point, and say, that is the way, but then his service is finished, All too often, after he points, he then wants you to grab him and hold to him, which will insure you will never find what I am talking about.

    I think that is what happened to the real Christ and others in history. I think he pointed, but then people didn't follow what he said, and instead grabbed hold of his pointing finger and started to worship it, thinking that he would save them. And that is how religions are created. And how they all have gone wrong, and offer no change in human consciousness.

    If there is no change in human consciousness, away from what has created this brutal world, then what good is any religion? Ego consciousness has created this world, and its evils, its poor and its rich, its greed and its war, and unless that consciousness changes, this will continue on until the race goes extinct. If we do not change ourselves, no one else will do that changing. But one has to want first, to change. And no one does.
     
  18. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You are just saying that people do not know the Truth, and hence use their opinions, as if fantasy ideas are OK.

    I show that sexual promiscuity hurts fatherless kids with enormous child abuse.
    Deaf people answer back that condoms could stop this.
    But that is after 60 year of the Sexual Revolution and such preaching as bastards are now 50% of all births.
     
  19. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    8,490
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Philosophers J.L.Mackie, Graham Oppy, Micheal Martin, Quentin Smith
    Physicists Paul Davies, Laurence Krauss, Victor Stenger.

    These are just a few I could name.

    My view? The whole idea of a creator 'god', particularly the Biblical one, makes no sense. That a 'being' so far beyond its creations' understanding should bring into being a universe and create a being to populate a lonely planet is just ridiculous. Do we know that nothing can come from nothing? To many ancient people struck down with a disease, it came from nothing as far as they knew. Science will open many doors, prove and disprove many 'beliefs' in the future.

    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106-why-does-anything-exist-at-all
     
  20. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    If you believe that Truth does not set us free, by describing Reality so that we can act properly, then you and I have different opinions.
     
  21. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37,493
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A much much much much much much more plausible explanation than the all-powerful creator of the universe, for one time in the history of the universe, decided to create a son and then have him tortured to death just so he wouldn't have to just simply forgive everybody (for original sin)!
     
  22. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are stuck in all of these concepts. I cannot get stuck there.

    Christ and those others were of the same Consciousness, which is not ego consciousness. That is what they shared. And they were speaking of the same thing, but language, culture, era, and then the corruption of their words keep people from seeing what was common with all of these men.

    Truth cannot be held in thought. Truth is there when thought is not moving, when ego consciousness is quiet. And thought will never capture it, for if it could, it is no longer Truth

    I can only speak from experience, and that is where I stand. All of the concepts, ideas, myths, stories, illustrations in the world will not allow any man to see a revolution in his own consciousness, a rebirth, if you will. So I have no use for your ideas, for they are like dead limbs, and not anything living. No offense CD, just telling you how I feel on this issue. You complicate such a simple thing far to much, and its easy to get lost, side tracked in complexity. For this has to be the simplest thing in the world, to be real.
     
  23. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You need read the Bible over, and see that "god" means Reality.
    And "His" son is Truth, in His image.
     
  24. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    LOL
    I am stuck?

    This is because I believe that Truth is the savior for me, in a Reality which can utilized to make things better, and is otherwise threatening when unknown?
     
  25. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Truth does set man free, but truth is not found in ego consciousness. Truth is there, when that consciousness is not moving, but is not there at all. When ego consciousness is quiet, then Truth is. It is such a simple thing, but I guess far too simple, for we love complexity.

    Once the ego is quiet, not moving, which means thought is silent, than Truth IS. And that Truth is very powerful, full of intelligence, love, beauty. And if I may say so, Sacred. But if one has never been there, it's like trying to talk about what an orange taste like to a person who has never seen one, much less ever tasted on. The taste cannot be communicated, no matter what words are used.
     

Share This Page