Can a Christian lose their Salvation, or Are their former Christians (cont.)

From Felilctiy's post #597

To Felicity

I know Adam had to eat. We are discussing the eating of the forbidden fruit.

Why would God put the forbidden fruit there? Adam didn't need it to have a will and exercise his will. He had plenty to do in naming animals and taking care of the Garden which called for an exercise of his will.

Adam didn't put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden. God did. Why, because it acts upon Adams will. It influences his will. Then, the serpent would be something else which would add more influence upon Adams will.

Adams will was not free. His will is subjected to influences from which he has to decide. Not of his choice. Only God has free will. Adam has only a will.

How can man be free when he is the creature and God is the Creator? He isn't.

Original sin is the sin of Adam. And it is Adams sin which caused the fall of the human race. Eves sin did not. Eves sin only made her a sinner. Adams sin made all a sinner. Thus Eves sin does not transfer. Adams sin does. Original sin is passed down through the man, not the woman.

How is the Virgin Birth a sign of the Messiah? How many witnesses were there to observe that Joseph and Mary had no sex, or that Mary had no sex until after Jesus was born? Plus, how is it a sign when both Mary and Joseph kept quiet about it?

The purpose of the Virgin Birth was to break the sin of Adam to Christ. Thus Christ was not guilty of Adams sin. He was free from sin.

Quantrill

 

The Word is very clear on the matter of Salvation. A confessed sinner that believes in Jesus as their Savior is sealed with the Holy Spirit. We didn't do anything to earn and we can't do anything to lose it. Though some would suggest this gives us a license to willfully sin. Far from the truth if you follow His teachings.

Unlike Islam and other faiths or no faith, we have the assurance. No other does.

 

Except there is the excomunication process.

What god has given, God can take away...

You better think about that before reverting to your old ways and think that by saying some vague sermon you will be saved.

A non believer that lives a virtuous life has way better chance of being welcomed to heaven than some bible thumper who only pays lip service to the cause.

 

Excommunication? That is not scriptural. As a matter of fact it is a religious doctrine of man, not of God. No man, no doctrine, no process can undo what God has done. This type of blasphemy is exactly what causes derision and confusion among God's people. The Church needs to get over itself and get back to the teachings of Jesus. No Church doctrine or tradition has anything to do with Salvation. That is solely between the individual and God.

If you're referring to “And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” [Job 1:21]

This is OT and references the things of earth like material things, family, whatever. It certainly does NOT refer to NT Salvation.

Vague Sermon? I think not. Cherry picking on your part more likely.

I do thank you for a bit of humor this afternoon.

 

I'm sorry, but the only christian sect that are true are the Catholics and the two spinoff, the Anglican and Orthodox church. They are the only one who have a direct link to Jesus, through Peter and Paul.

Your evangelical sect are just as valid as the Jehova witness or the Mormon. They are a perversion of the true teaching. Peter, as named by Jesus, was the stone upon which his church was to be built and that was and is the Catholic church.

As such the catholic church by its patriarch the pope, has the power to excomuniate those that, by their word or deeds, defies the word of God.
If you sin, you have to truthfully repent and make penance. Just being "borned again" isn't enough and its not a free pass for the future.

 

The Roman Catholic Church has nothing to do with Peter. Again, this is a misguided and unproven edict of man. The RCC has co-opted the message and teachings of Jesus to the point that He would be turning in His grave if He has remained in the tomb. No wonder ML listed the failings of this Church and from it perhaps the truest form of Christianity has emerged since the 1st Century. The ROCK is Jesus, the Cornerstone is Jesus. How does one start a church on the foundation of man, any man? Peter, Mary, Pope. Blasphemy.

To place a Church or an Apostle or (mother) at the head of anything closely related to our Lord Jesus is a mockery for which Christ Himself will judge. May the Church repent, may it's followers see the light and crawl out from under the darkness of satan.

 

The RCC has everything to do with Peter being the true church of Christ. What you are believing is a bastardized version of christianity made for mass marketing and adapted to the badly educated sheep that believe such drivel.

You should repent, make penance and rejoin before it is too late for you. Poor thing, you've been lied to all your life...

 

Oh, someone has been lied to all their life, but it ain't me. Was Peter the only 1st Century Apostle? What, pray tell became of the other Apostles going out into the world and sharing the Good News? Were they also members of Peter's Church? What about Paul? He was Catholic?

The Pope is a man, yet he somehow rises above all other men to this esteemed position. Voted into position by his fellow men, does God hold the Pope in high esteem. I think not.

"And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God." [Luke 16:15]

 

isnt is peter paul and mary?

but then i remember something:

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men

are the religious wingnuts arguing?



imagine that.

 

Yep.

Repent and make penance now or suffer the consequences...

 

Balderdash. Doctrine, of man who has corrupted His Word.

 

We'll be judge in the end. We'll see then, who was right and who was wrong. I'm not affraid...

 

It's not a matter of seeing who is right or wrong, it's more a matter of accepting truth or lies and spending time where you may not want to spend it.

Be afraid, of course not. For Jesus said "Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid". Though I think He was speaking to and for the Christian.

 

Can you quote the scripture where peter was named pope?

 

« Et moi, je te dis que tu es Pierre, et que sur cette pierre je bâtirai mon Église, et que les portes du séjour des morts ne prévaudront point contre elle.
Je te donnerai les clefs du royaume des cieux : ce que tu lieras sur la terre sera lié dans les cieux, et ce que tu délieras sur la terre sera délié dans les cieux. »

18 And I say to you: That you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.


And from the Cathechism:

Art. n° 936 : « Le Seigneur a fait de Saint Pierre le fondement visible de son Église. Il lui en a remis les clefs. L'évêque de l'Église de Rome, successeur de Saint Pierre, est le chef du Collège des évêques, Vicaire du Christ et Pasteur de l'Église tout entière sur cette terre ».

The Lord made St. Peter the visible foundation of his Church. He entrusted the keys of the Church to him. The bishop of the Church of Rome, successor to St. Peter, is "head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and Pastor of the universal Church on earth" (CIC, can. 331).

 

The foundation of Christianity and the ensuing Church is based on the rock, the cornerstone Jesus. Amazing that a Church is based on two verses in the Bible to the exclusion of the entirety of the NT which is Jesus. Ditto for Mary. Mother of the humaness of Jesus, not the divinity of Jesus. Blasphemy.

Cathechism, not biblically inspired. No different than the works of other religions such as LDS, Jehovah Witness and the like that have the necessity of some doctrine and tradition apart from the Bible.

 

And yet, us Catholic, can trace our religion directly to jesus through Peter and Paul, while all that you have as role model are Haggard and others...

 

Catholics cannot trace their roots back to Jesus, through Peter or Paul. It's not about role models it's about who we worship and who our Savior is. I never heard anyone reply to my query about the other Apostles, what became of the Churches they started?

Paul, a Catholic? You have to be kidding. The only reason the Roman Catholic Church exists is thank to the Roman Emperor Constantine who gave it legitimacy. Before that it was just another spinoff of the various Christian churches being spread throughout the region and beyond. Why do you think they call it the Roman Catholic Church. Because it's influence was in Rome, not in the birthplace of Christianity.

Paul would be turning over in his grave if it weren't for the fact he is in Heaven along with Peter, another Christian. There are no divisions or denominations in Heaven. I assume you understand that.

 

I for one am not anti-catholic. Though I disagree with much of the Catholic doctrine at present. But, I find I also disagree with much of Protestant doctrine.

I recognize there are Christians in both denominations, sometimes not because of, but in spite of those denominations.

The question I would ask is one I ask myself, does a Catholic believe a Protestant can be saved and be true to his Protestant doctrine? And does a Protestant believe a Catholic can be saved and be true to his Catholic doctrine?

Quantrill

 

No one is saved because they are a Catholic or Protestant or of any religion or not. We are saved when we believe in Jesus as our Savior. Everything after that is icing on the cake, so to speak.

I've mentioned before that I lay claim to Christ, not a denomination or some movement. They all have it wrong in many ways, so why hang my hat on their doctrine and tradition.

I'm a follower of Christ, no one else. That's as it should be, don't you think?

 

I'm not clear on this post as to what it has to do with the topic of your thread.

I stand on John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

I read that as FOREVER.

And Ephesians 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

 

You are fabulating.

You have been following a false doctrine all of your life and now you are starting to see that your soul future isn't all that secured.

You should really repent and submit to the will of God and his one true church, the Catholic church.

 

The only difference betwen both is more political than religious. The protestant, more preciselly the Anglican wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the fact that the pope didn't want to permit the divorce of Henry the VIII.

But the fact remain that to be "saved" you have to live ALL of your life in accordance to Jesus teaching, which anybody can do, even those that don't believe in god!

Just formulating some pretty phrases and having water poured on your head isn't enough and it sure ain't a free pass for future evil deeds.

 

No one can live ALL of their life in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. No one.

You by your own words have condemned yourself to a life of torment. Tell me, truthfully. You can't be a Catholic. Even my Catholic friends would find you writing hellish thoughts. Certainly not the beliefs of someone who is a follower of Jesus. Nothing, I say nothing you post brings glory nor honor to our God.

Get off your popemobile and back to Jesus.

Fabulating? I think you need a bit of that soap detergent Fab to wash out your unholy mouth.