Can a Christian lose their Salvation, or Are their former Christians (cont.)

This speaks of the relation of all people to Christians. It doesn't say they are saved in their false religion due to their faithfulness to that religion or light they have.

It doesn't indicate, that I saw, where one does not have to place faith in Christ to be saved. It speaks of preparation. It speaks of salvation to all. But salvation to all is not being saved without placing faith in Christ.

Quantrill

 

No, I asked if people can be saved of other faiths who do not place faith in Christ. You said yes.

Do you now say no?

Quantrill

 

Romans 1 proves my point. Those who worship other gods or the creation, do so falsely and are under the judgement and wrath of God.

Quantrill

 

You are equivocating "faith." In one instance, it is belief about the Deity, in another you use it to mean "religion." God and religion are not the same. God is not bound by "religion."

Equivocation is poor discussion technique--it is contrary to communication in that it obfuscates meaning. You are guilty of this, and it makes me question your sincerity while confirming my general impression of you based on your posts that the MOST important thing to you--even above "faith"--is a pathological need to be right and superior.

No, religion does not save you; yes, faith (from Grace) does--provided God is satisfied with your response to his calling, and no matter at all the doctrine of man.

 

Romans 2:29...

I meant Romans 2--the citation I gave (but marked the chapter wrong).

[29] He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God.

 

john 14:28 ye heard that I said to you -- I go away, and I come unto you; if ye did love me, ye would have rejoiced that I said -- I go on to the Father, because my Father is greater than I.

29 `And now I have said [it] to you before it come to pass, that when it may come to pass, ye may believe;

30 I will no more talk much with you, for the ruler of this world doth come, and in me he hath nothing;



Jesus even had faith in 'the christ' to come!

He said (charged) what the failing idiots just wont believe (matt 16;20)

 

ie... jesus was not 'god' as a diety over mankind and mankind have created the doctrine that many lie with, in use.


The bold statements should be understood, clearly!

 

yes they can its called a backslide or they become a reprobate from the terms in the bible

 

Welcome to the discussion.

 

Im doing nothing of the sort. My question was simple. You answered yes. Now you seem to be saying no. Your not even addressing the question here.

Do you believe one in another religion who has never heard of Christ will be saved if he is faithful in his religion or the light he has, though he never turns to Christ?

Quantrill

 

I don't understand how that proves one can be saved who is of another religion and never comes to Christ. Could you explain?

Quantrill

 

Let's turn the argument around. Are you saying that anyone who grows up in a different region of the world under a different religion and never has come to a full understanding of the Christian gospel is sent to hell in a perfunctory manner?

 

Im saying anyone in the world who does not come to faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour and dies in that state, will go to hell.

Quantrill

 

So people who don't hear or understand the gospel have no other venue for salvation. They roast like campfire marshmallows. They're metaphorically f***ed.

Right?

 

Did I not answer your question? Im saying anyone, who does not come to faith in Jesus Christ, no matter what religion they belong to, no matter where in the world they live, if they die in that state, will go to hell.

Quantrill

 

No--I was quite clear. It is evident you are stubbornly myopic, or worse, intentionally manipulative.


You did is again in this post...inching a tad closer to what we all know I said, but still clinging to what you want to make my comments say... see the bold above.

The second part--being faithful in... "the light he has" IS what I am saying, but remove the "OR"--I NEVER said one can be saved through a false faith.

HOWEVER, a sincere faith that is exercised in full submission to God's will as that individual is capable of coming to know God--THE GOOD SHEPHARD WILL NOT ABANDON THAT SHEEP.

Stop twisting words, equivocating, moving the goalpost, obfuscating....that is disgusting and quite INSINCERE.

 

Thank you for your candor and clarity. This statement from you is unambiguous as it is shocking. Thankfully most Protestants don't believe this.

 

The question is simple. Do you believe one can be saved in another religion who never turns to Christ but is faithful to that religion or the light he as?

You have said yes. What are you saying now?

Quantrill

 

----------------------------

The answer is "NO"

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:12

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Romans 6:23
------------------------------
And just a bit of warning for those who may be twisting things to their own desires or beliefs from what they read...better pay attention to what God says in verse 6.

Matthew 18:1-6
1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoever shall receive one such little child in my name receives me.

6 But whoever shall offend one of these little ones who believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

{and what that means is, don't cause a believer to stumble and fall away from God by leading them astray..you'll pay dearly for it in the end.}

 

Wow...Just...wow

Go look at your own post--the question you asked and those following.

 

1st question:

2nd question:

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME QUESTION! You moved the goalpost and now are suggesting that I changed my answer.


Sincerity is important in legit discussions--you just proved you're insincere.

 

I assure you I am quite sincere in this discussion. I see no difference in the questions, though I worded them differently.

But, no matter. Answer both of them.

My answer to the first is no, one cannot be saved who does not come to Christ for salvation.

My answer tothe second is no, one cannot be saved who does not come to Christ though he be faithful in any other religion, or the light he has.

Now, what is your answer?

Quantrill

 

Why do you keep asking the same thing that has been answered MULTIPLE times? I answered directly, I cited the Bible, the Catechism, I re-stated and clarified...what is your problem?

READ!!!

How can you POSSIBLY have any question as to my answer?

 

See the bold above....? How do you decide that? Where does it say that in the Bible? So...severely mentally compromised individuals are going to hell because they are not capable of coming to know Christ?

So this beautiful little girl--God's creation, made in His image and likeness--is going to hell because she does not have the light to come to know Christ. ----Horse(*)(*)(*)(*). If you believe that, you are disgusting, IMO.

 

Have you ever read in the Bible about the second resurrection? Hardly any Christians know about that......its foreign to them. Because of their ignorant of the second resurrection they are at a loss to explain what will happen to people that were born before Jesus came or have never even know about the God mentioned in the Bible. The second resurrection is for the vast majority of mankind that never knew about Jesus or the true God. They will be resurrected but they won't be immortal, and their minds will be open to the truth and many if not all will repent and be saved.