Can a Christian lose their salvation? Or, are there former Christians?

Actually the question was

No mention of the term "claim". A "suggestion" is not a "claim", More of your misrepresentation of FACTS.

Please show 'how' "it is the same thing". If you had said 'yes' then I would have known that the truth was not in you, much like I already know that you cannot bear the truth in the things that you say. See above.

What objective empirical evidence do you have that will support your claim that "..it doesn't necessarily last longer than a fraction of a second.."?

Oh really? You have been in that state of "fully aware"? When? How? You have been in a state of knowing everything that has ever happened and everything that will ever happen, everything about every man, woman and child that has ever lived or is living? Next time you get in that state of being 'fully aware', give me a call. You will have my contact information, because of that state of being.

The "semantical hair-splitting" as you call it, is what is busting you in all of your misrepresentations of FACT. So why should I be 'easing up'?; that would only be acquiescing to the wrong doing that you are involved in.

 

It sure appears to be.

I don't draw the line of "comprehension" - you can't claim to know God and then make him out to be some vicious evil ruler that expects you to do something when you don't even know what you need to do. Some mentally retarded people are able to understand about Jesus, it is up to God to decide who comprehends and who doesn't.

I thought you said you read the whole Bible? You must have missed that verse that said;

1 Tim 2: I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

God wants every one to come to "saving" knowledge. How He accomplishes that is not for me to have to know.

What about that person. God is not going to keep them from learning about Jesus in one way or another. If you don't believe that, then you believe that God plays favorites and only lets those he wants to save to learn about salvation.

The Bible is pretty clear. You have to ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior to be saved. If God doesn't provide a way for these people to have the knowledge so they can make a choice, then God would not be very loving, now would he?

I can't speak for other people.

It isn't in the Bible. But God gave us a brain and He expects us to use it. You can't claim that God is love and merciful and then claim that if you are mentally retarded and do not understand the plan of salvation, you are (*)(*)(*)(*)ed.

Like I said, I don't speak for other posters. For those that are able to understand the plan of salvation, there is no excuse.

 

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am hostile to religion--I am not. I am a very devout Christian person. The questions I pose are not vague challenges to some vague concept. They are specific questions in response to specific things quoted to accentuate a fine point of theological discussion. I don't mean to ignore your posts, but in some ways they are irrelevant because the discussion is beyond what you think I am saying and it would take too long to clarify everything. I hope this brief interlude helps.

Most of what you are saying concerning the mercy of God I DO agree with. The problem lies in some claims that, when taken to their logical conclusions, result in contradictions to your professed belief in God's mercy. I don't believe God (*)(*)(*)(*)s invincibly ignorant peoples. Some very rigid doctrines do. Some who adhere to certain doctrines don't realize the fullness of what some doctrines they hold sacred actually mean when taken to the logical end. Many things "sound" good--but upon scrutiny, fail the test.

 

Very good conclusion.

 

Then you're not the kind of person to whom the idea can be communicated, so I'll leave you with this: if you don't understand that that children have perfect awareness before the first time they sin, you don't understand anything worth understanding.

 

1 Thes. 2
[3] For our appeal does not spring from error or uncleanness, nor is it made with guile;
[4] but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not to please men, but to please God who tests our hearts.

 

To say that Children have 'perfect awareness' is the same as saying that 'Children KNOW God'. Thank you for that admission. With that admission, let me leave you with this. The whole purpose of Christ is to provide man with a means of regaining that 'perfect awareness' so that we can be reunited with God the Father. You ought to give it a try.

 

All I can do is offer a big AMEN on that one.

 

metrex has evil as his avator, but he speaks good.
Felicity has good as her avator, but she speaks evil.

In an honest answer ‘but’’ is to show that red contradicts or is in conflict with green.In an honest answer red and green are balanced, they equally long.

In a dishonest answer the red statement before “but” does not contradict to the green statement after “but”. “But” is used only to delude a reader and diminish the truth the statement before ‘but” still holds.

In a dishonest answer the statement after “but” is not balanced with the statement before “but”, but it is expanded and it uses capitol letters in order to delude a reader and diminish the truth the statement before ‘but” still holds; the misbalance is used shift accents and attention, as a tool of deception.


A dishonest answer is never direct. When Felicity is asked – “do you believe this is true?” she answers “I don’t think it is not true, but I consider and I KNOW something else not contradicting and not related to the statement is true.” “I don’t think that the apple is not red but I KNOW and believe that grass is green, and nobody can deny that both apple and grass are plants which are…long and unbalanced…………………………………………………………………….. ” Felicity puts a weak “I think” before the “but” and strong “I KNOW, I believe” after the “but.”

This style “gotcha”, goals and intentions of pushing a preset agenda rather than looking for the truth are not different from ones used by atheists and they show again that Felicity is moved by Satan.

Quantrill provided the quote. I cannot add anything (interpretattion) to the quote; I read it as it is written. There are scriptures we take by faith, and there are scriptures which can be checked by an “experiment”, by personal experience we can share. I shared the experience of a long time atheist of all kinds in my past. I shared that for me going back would be like trying to become an idiot.

I asked Felicity the question: Do you believe that one day you (or something) can change your mind and you’d be capable of believing that your green beliefs are false? And I received a double tongue Serpentine’s reply.

When and if I have time I will move to the next line of the Felicity's reply … of course if I don’t have to demonstrate another double tongue twist and deception in the reply to this demonstration….

 

If I do that, will I be as good at straining out gnats and swallowing camels as you are?

 

Below, we find an extraordinary example of how some will turn to superstitions when the various forms of logic and mathematics and science fail to accomplish a goal.

 

Why do you feel so threatened by me? Is it because I do not presume to know the mind of God? It is called humility; perhaps you would like to try it some time.

 

"Extraordinary"....


Good word choice....

 

Matt.5
[10] "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[11] "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
[12] Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.


2Tim 3
10] Now you have observed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness,
[11] my persecutions, my sufferings, what befell me at Antioch, at Ico'nium, and at Lystra, what persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me.
[12] Indeed all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
[13] while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived.

 

I was wrong. There is nothing of essence in the replies to the demonstration of deceptions and twists of those who are moved by Satan.
thus I can proceed to the next line if and when I have time.

 

What forms of logic and mathematics and science do fail to accomplish what goal? What superstitions of what religion do you see in my post? What is unclear to the general public and what questions to what statements or words of mine does it have?

 

The point is in red bold points. I did not say Felicity is moved by Satan. The red point is that these facts prove that Felicity is moved by Satan. Thus one has either to address the red hot facts or to point that the conclusion is not in accordance with the red hot facts. Since Felicity has made no attempt to address the bold red points of my post they all stand as they are, - true.

Xns do not feel and are not threatened by Satan, not at all, any reasonable person of any walk of life can see that I am not.

 

As for the 'logic' portion, see the thread I started entitled "Is there any wonder..." That thread has a link which will provide you with an extensive list of varying philosophies. Each potentially having its' own individual form of 'logic' else sharing another form of logic which belongs to another philosophy.
In that listing, you will find the 'philosophy of mathematics' and the 'philosophy of science'. How about the way in which some people abuse those philosophies in their vain attempt (goal) to eliminate God and or Religion?

Not all superstitions are derived from a religion. So your blanket association of superstition and religion pointing to potentially all superstitions. Aside from that, it has not been PROVEN that any superstition is derived from religion. Remember, science cannot prove anything... science can only declare a best guess scenario.

Your arbitrary association of colors as being either good or evil. That is a misrepresentation and one that you cannot support with objective empirical evidence.

 

How is about answering my Qs? Then you can argue things I have never stated.

 

Ah... You are going to now recognize the authority of the jurisprudential logic behind the word 'acquiescence'? That is fantastic. That would mean (according to you), that all the many claims that I have posed to the readers that have not been refuted are necessarily construed as being being 'true'. I love it.

What are Xns? I would have no idea of whether or not Xns can feel anything without knowing what an Xns is. You do realize that any 'reasonable' person would be any person who has the capacity of 'normal thinking'? Do You realize that?

 

What?

What?

What?

Are you for real?

 

Ah... I may ask you to adress my points and words, but it does mean that you'd ever think about trying.

Xns is abbriviation for Christians as it had been used by Xn scribers for centuries and as I had showed it in Xn manuscipts. IX or X with wave simble over it had been used by original scribers for Jesus Christ for they followed the scriptures calling not to mention it in vains.

 

I do address your points. One of the points you made was where you stated "Since Felicity has made no attempt to address the bold red points of my post they all stand as they are, - true.", what you have described is an act of acquiescence. See, I was actually paying you a compliment for having recognized that fact of law that a lot of people are unaware of. Congratulations.

But if you don't believe in the scriptures where some worked as "scribers for Jesus Christ", then why would you take upon yourself the arduous task of studying all this trivial stuff and memorizing the context of how those things were used? Why would you even want to associate your writings with those that the 'scribers for Jesus Christ' used?

 

I must be, you are responding to what I wrote.

 

Lots of people lost their belief, trust, faith in god because of the shoa (holocaust). That's not an opinion. If your studies of 'the scripture' leads you in irrealism then I'm convinced there's something wrong with your teachers and/or or teachings.

http://youtu.be/ALAkYfJrnjA