CDC Reveals Hospitals Counted Heart Attacks As COVID-19 Deaths

2,287,231 so lower than 2019

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-Counts-of-Deaths-by-State-and-Select-Causes/3yf8-kanr

 

And again, your wrong.

https://www.aha.org/special-bulleti...us-aid-relief-and-economic-security-cares-act

 

Which bit is wrong?

 

You’re getting way off into the weeds for absolutely no reason, other than trying to justify your erroneous understanding of what is in fact very clear. What’s more, your weed-thwacking is adding to your confusion because I think you’re still not clear about the terminology, or willing to accept explanations where they conflict with your (mis)understanding. On top of this, different methodologies and timings mean that, in your efforts to calculate your way via other datasets to a proof that it's all not true, you're encountering data that - as the CDC pages warn all over the place - invariably won’t correlate. Add to this your lack of clarity as to the nature, context and import of such data, and you’re on a fruitless mission.

The basic fact is that it’s a comorbidities table on a page about Covid-19 deaths.

Comorbidities are by definition NOT a cause of death.

Ergo, Covid-19 comorbidities (as listed in the table) are by definition NOT a cause of death - and not counted as such, anywhere.

Covid-19 is the cause of death. The table lists and counts comorbidities of Covid-19 deaths.

And, each death that ever occurs, however it occurs, will only ever have ONE - and ONE ONLY - cause of death.

There is no need to prove this mathematically. That’s how it works. The cause of each death is taken from the “underlying cause” section on the death certificate. There is only ever ONE death certificate per decedant and only ever ONE underlying cause of death - and this is the source of cause of death counts.

Note that I say “underlying” cause of death. That’s because death certificates also detail the “intermediate” and “immediate” causes of death. These are conditions triggered by the underlying cause of death. They are NOT the cause of death, and are never recorded as such. The cause of death is always the underlying cause - as specified on the death certificate - which started the chain of events leading to death.

I suspect this is confusing you too.

And again, you need to pay attention to context. This is a page about Covid-19 deaths.

When the footnote says "Deaths involving more than one condition (e.g., deaths involving both diabetes and respiratory arrest) were counted in both totals,” “deaths” means Covid-19 deaths and “condition” means comorbidity. This should be self-evident because the table is about comorbidities of Covid-19. That is, conditions caused by or contributing to Covid-19 deaths. Again, comorbidities are by definition NOT a cause of death. And I have no idea what other kind of death you think they could be comorbidities of.

Secondly, “deaths involving more than one condition... were counted in both totals” does not mean counted as a deaths “from”. It means counted as a deaths “with” - the “with” being the comorbidity. That’s what the table is about, remember? Comorbidities.

So, a death involving the conditions of pneumonia and respiratory arrest is counted in both comorbidity groups. As a COMORBIDITY.

The CDC does unfortunately forget that laymen are reading these stats too, and meanings are not always as clear and full as they might be. On the other hand, for the most part they are within a reasonable person’s understanding, and they should not need to pander to every single possible misinterpretation arising from statistical illiteracy and wilful ignorance in certain quarters.

This is a long post, and really should be utterly unnecessary - and no doubt will be fruitless. It’s clear, as I said, that you're viewing the information with preconceived notions which are hampering your ability to understand or accept it. Instead, you're looking for reasons to prove it means something it doesn't. And to make matters worse, you’re adding to your own confusion as you go outwith the actual information in order to prove it wrong.

And at the end of the day, your insistence on using the term WuFlu says all there is to know about your capacity or willingness to deal with plain facts and realities.

 

Got it.
Ok, I came back to my pivot. Filtered it for months 1-9.
Deaths from all causes in 2019: 2,128,712
Deaths from all caused in 2020: 2,409,688
Difference: 280,976.

But here is the kick in the nuts to your theory:
Deaths from natural causes in 2019: 1,939,763
Deaths from natural causes in 2020: 2,218,077
Difference: 278,314

Natural causes drove the increase in total actual deaths! Year over year actual deaths for all non-natural deaths remained virtually the same for first 9 months of 2020 and 2019.
This is another nail in the coffin of the WuFlu myth.

 

That’s not what CDC said in the email.

 

Yes I just saw that but...

What data set did you ask about?

Secondly, there's an important part of his reply which seems to be flying under your radar.

 

Why did the death count for non-natural causes of death remained virtually unchanged from 2019 to 2020 then?

For dataset, look up report “Weekly Counts of Deaths by state and select causes, 2019-2020”.

 

LOL at your own goal!
"If that same person tests positive", 1:20 mark
"meaning at the very least the individual has to test positive" 1:51 mark

So much for ""patient merely needs to exhibit symptoms"

 

And at the 1:39 mark were it discusses presumptive cases. I also showed you specifically were the CDC specifically stated that you could use assumed for the death certificates. Attached again for clarification.


Granted, the CDC has changed guidelines many times of late so even if they have to be confirmed now, you stated that there is no additional funds for treating COVID patients?!

 

You keep refusing to provide a source and a link, as opposed to what I provided for you. I assumed you had not noticed.

Here is more proof that the death stats for The Wu Flu are the product of Fake Science and corruption.

"New York City, already a world epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, sharply increased its death toll by more than 3,700 victims on Tuesday, after officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it.

The new figures, released by the city’s Health Department, drove up the number of people killed in New York City to more than 10,000, and appeared to increase the overall United States death count by 17 percent to more than 26,000."
THE NEW YORK TIMES, N.Y.C. Death Toll Soars Past 10,000 in Revised Virus Count
The city has added more than 3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive., By J. David Goodman and William K. Rashbaum, April 14, 2020
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html

Note how I provided a source and a link instead of pasting up an unsourced image. It helps - doesn't it?

 

As I thought - you've misinterpreted his response, which was:

YOUR question:
Hello! I was wondering how the deaths are counted in this data set. If someone, let's say, had diabetes and cancer (malignant neoplasms) listed on their death certificate, does it mean that this death would be in totals under Malignant neoplasms and under diabetes?

ANSWER part I
No. Most of the enumerations on this table are based on the “underlying cause of death” concept, so each record falls into a single category.​

So, they confirm what I said: that deaths are recorded under ONE cause only, per the underlying cause of death on the death certificate.

ANSWER part II
The only exception is for records enumerated in the category titled “COVID-19 (U071, Multiple Cause of Death),” some of which might be counted in other categories depending on other causes that might be co-mentioned along with COVID-19, and also depending on the placement of COVID-19 within the causal sequence of the death certificate.​

The last part is important, and going over your head.

The "causal sequence" means underlying cause of death ---> intermediate cause of death ---> immediate cause of death. It is the underlying cause of death that determines what a death is categorized as.

If the underlying cause of death is COVID-19 then it is counted as a COVID-19 death. Once (see answer Part I).

When this is not the case, it might be "co-mentioned" under other causes of death. That is, as a comorbidity of these other causes of death.

This is what “multiple causes” means. That COVID-19 may be mentioned alongside other causes of death. The purpose is surveillance - to capture the full picture of Covid's impact - and there is still nonetheless only one underlying cause of death.

What's more, this applies to the minority of COVID-19 cases.

92% of all death certificates mentioning COVID-19, as either a cause or comorbidity, list COVID-19 as the underlying cause of death.
You can see that here (click table 1 to expand).
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/tech_notes.htm

As for your other “calculations” I have no idea why you think the people who died from COVID-19 who were diabetic were “supposed to die this year” from diabetes, and therefore deaths from diabetes should be lower. That’s ridiculous.

 

Natural causes includes death from Covid

 

I've nearly reached that point with this person myself, for the same MO.

 

No, it literally doesn't!

If they died from diabetes, diabetes would be the underlying cause of death and that is what it would be counted as - per your CDC email. Because this is what they literally said:

"Most of the enumerations on this table are based on the “underlying cause of death” concept, so each record falls into a single category."
​

If they happened to have Covid-19 too, then it might (as the CDC email says) be co-mentioned with that cause of death. It would not, however, be the cause of death. At most, it would be a "contributing cause of death" because Covid-19 might worsen but can't cause a death from diabetes. Even then, it would only be listed as a contributing cause if it did actually contribute to death.

If it didn't contribute - if the person had Covid-19 but was asymptomatic, or mildly affected - it wouldn't be mentioned at all on the death certificate and therefore would not be recorded at all by the CDC because the CDC gets it's data from death certificates.

But the ultimate flaw is the absurdity of suggesting that everyone who had diabetes and died from Covid-19 would have died from diabetes instead. It's astonishing that you obviously don't see this absurdity.

 

I don’t know why I thought natural causes excludes diseases.
Sorry about that.

 

Im glad I participated in this conversation. Cleared up a few questions I had.
I agree - we do have a net increase in deaths year over year that is large enough to cover WuFlu deaths.

 

That's because the excess heart attacks are being called Covid deaths.