Climate change: We haven't experienced anything like this in the past 2,000 yearsClimate scientists

Review the thread in detail.

 

They are making money selling green energy equipment to the west that will result in lower economic growth.

They install faux capacity that is never used. Meanwhile they continue to build coal fired plants.

Clean energy reduces economic growth by increasing energy costs.

 

What does the fossil fuel industry put out ??? Is that why Germany is building lignite plants ???

 

Come again?

 

His was a qualitative assessment (one not including measurements) that he stated did not cover the world.

His qualitative assessment has never gained scientific acceptance as an indicator of world wide climate behavior.

And, frankly I don't know why it would.

The thing is, to have such a short period of world wide temperature deviation would require some sort of cause. Please cite such a cause that is backed by science.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descr...ts#/media/File:Ipcc7.1-mann-moberg-manley.png

 

Please review science in detail. I don't see this thread as the authority on climatology.

 

These are three statements that are absolutely ridiculous and need cites by you.

 

China builds just to build. They’ve built entire cities that are completely empty. Google Chinese Ghost cities. “Leading” isn’t exactly leading. They don’t take into account the economic stability of their people, nor do they build anything with safety in mind, because they are not beholden to their people.

 

Lamb even stated that his report was specific to a selection of regions, NOT the world. Those regions were mostly Europe - the smallest continent except Australia.

 

I think you're wandering WAY off topic here.

Or, are you suggesting they don't actually use the power from the two football fields per HOUR of solar power they are building?

The thing is, China has a SERIOUS need for clean energy - their cities are horribly polluted by fossil fuel residue. They would probably do what they are doing regardless of climate change.

I responded to a poster who was claiming that China needs to be convinced (or forced!!??) to move toward clean energy.

And, I'm pointing out that China is WAY ahead of us. They own the majority of the patents on clean energy (not just more than the US). They are the leaders in manufacturing and in export of clean energy technology, because it is economically sound. And, China leads in installing clean energy at home.

Let's be honest about China and the problems they have and the advances and potential that they have.

 

The Roman Warming Period (RWP) wasn't the Climate Optimum of our current interglacial, the Holocene Climate Optimum (8,000 YA) was and it's been cooling ever since. The only reason the Roman Optimum came up is because your topic title clearly dates to it. While warmer than today and the Medieval Warming Period (MWP) there is nothing remarkable about the RWP, the MWP or today, other than they form the three recent humps of the last 2,000 years in an 8,000 year cooling trend.



The Holocene Climate Optimum (HCO) warm event consisted of increases of up to 4 °C near the North Pole (in one study, winter warming of 3 to 9 °C and summer of 2 to 6 °C in northern central Siberia).

Koshkarova, V.L.; Koshkarov, A.D. (2004). "Regional signatures of changing landscape and climate of northern central Siberia in the Holocene". Russian Geology and Geophysics. 45 (6): 672–685.

In the far Southern Hemisphere (New Zealand and Antarctica), the warmest period during the Holocene was 8,000 to 10,500 years ago.

Masson, V.; Vimeux, F.; Jouzel, J.; Morgan, V.; Delmotte, M.; Ciais,P.; Hammer, C.; Johnsen, S.; Lipenkov, V.Y.; Mosley-Thompson, E.; Petit, J.-R.; Steig, E.J.; Stievenard, M.; Vaikmae, R. (2000). "Holocene climate variability in Antarctica based on 11 ice-core isotopic records". Quaternary Research. 54 (3): 348–358. Bibcode:2000QuRes..54..348M. doi:10.1006/qres.2000.2172.
P.W. Williams; D.N.T. King; J.-X. Zhao K.D. Collerson (2004). "Speleothem master chronologies: combined Holocene 18O and 13C records from the North Island of New Zealand and their paleoenvironmental interpretation". The Holocene. 14 (2): 194–208. doi:10.1191/0959683604hl676rp.

 

Admittedly China sorta had to. They were chocking on their own pollution

 

Climate is cyclic on a larger scale than 2000 years.

Humans are changing the climate. I’m not sure how anyone can dispute that. The extent to which it’s a threat to us along with the dishonesty or warmers and their constantly failed predictions make me oppose any drastic policies related to climate change.

 

The "recent proxies" segment you have shows the significant change that has happened since the industrial revolution. Charts from other organizations confirm that trend.

I'm sure the thousands of years prior are useful in understanding climate overall. But, the fact that Earth has been there before thousands of years ago doesn't justify the claims made by those who deny there is a problem.

Mankind has populated Earth in accordance with quite recent times - as world population charts show. Regardless of what happened thousands of years ago, change toward warming today carries serious issues regarding agriculture, water, sea level, etc. Each of these are fundamental reasons for people movement and for failed states, for example. And, we simply don't have any capacity to address those problems. Thus, even our military considers climate change to be a serious issue of national security.

 

Did you just seriously quote 15 year old research?

And only TWO papers?

You do know that the IPCC AR5 WG2 has over 12000 citations?

 

And what effort have you devoted to understanding the underpinning science? I only ask because there was someone on here the other day categorically stating that climate change could not be happening because of the second law of thermodynamics

 

True. But, that's true for us, too, just not to the same extent or the same way, perhaps.

In the end, clean energy is emerging as an important sector of the world economy and we're ceding that to China and others. Today, it employs more people than coal does. In fact, Trump is pushing for more coal (which is a dying industry and takes people's lives) and is working to make it illegal for states to work on their own pollution standards - as CA and the major auto manufacturers are actually cooperating on more stringent limits on pollution.

Our federal energy policy doesn't make sense. We're striving for some previous century.

 

So what? Not one of those 12,000 disputes the fact that in our current epoch that we have been on an overall cooling trend for 8,000 years since the Holocene Climate Optimum.

 

Absofragginglutely!!

Even here in Aus which to my disgust is dragging its arse on emissions reduction, we are transitioning in very meaningful ways to alternative energy. Everyone is watching the big battery experiment in SA and there is now talk of putting in battery backup to the national grid. Large battery arrays make sense. I just wish we had put more research into the vanadium flow redux systems

 

The internet has a very large carbon footprint. Every post on this forum contributes to global warming and our impending doom.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christ...oes-it-take-to-run-the-internet/#45462ef1fff2

Perhaps it would be wise for those forum members worried about global warming to stop posting? And for those that don't stop, obviously they must not care that much about global warming.

 

Until the last 2000 years and most especially since the Industrial Age.

 

Everyone understands that the climate is changing and has always done so. The question is the causes.

 

As you may note above, there are even people who think it is cooling!!!

I don't see any notable body of scientists who suggest that humans aren't the major cause.

 

The bogus hockey stick which shows cooling in the twentieth century ??? Come’ man.

Read Lamb’s book “Climate History and the Modern World”. Chapter 10.

 

It has all the references you need. Unless they were deleted.