Flood myth or biblical fact: Should believers swallow the Noah story?

Nobody EVER said this. Not once. Ever. EVER. Why don't you put away your toys and intellectual dishonesty, and then you can come to the adult's table?

 

Literally no one has argued that.

 

There is NO argument.. and, many African Christian sects are not something you would recognize as Christianity because they are infused with animist beliefs and practices.

You have Muslims persecuting Christians and Christians persecuting Muslims .. and both tend to raid and enslave animists.

When you go to this corner are you attempting to run from the question of Noah's Global flood?

 

MOD EDIT>>>RULE 5<<<< I said the crusades (I did not say the crusades were moral etc they were not but the Muslims were worse and for 300 years they were the aggressors.) Ok you want MORE than a veneer you don't trust my abstract of pre-crusade history allow me to satisfy your concerns;

The 300 year Timeline

630 Two years before Muhammad's death of a fever, he launches the Tabuk Crusades, in which he led 30,000 jihadists against the Byzantine Christians.

632—634 Under the Caliphate of Abu Bakr the Muslim Crusaders reconquer and sometimes conquer for the first time the polytheists of Arabia.

633 The Muslim Crusaders, led by Khalid al—Walid, a superior but bloodthirsty military commander, whom Muhammad nicknamed the Sword of Allah for his ferocity in battle (Tabari, 8:158 / 1616—17), conquer the city of Ullays along the Euphrates River (in today's Iraq). Khalid captures and beheads so many that a nearby canal, into which the blood flowed, was called Blood Canal (Tabari 11:24 / 2034—35).

634 At the Battle of Yarmuk in Syria the Muslim Crusaders defeat the Byzantines.

634—644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al—Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.

635 Muslim Crusaders besiege and conquer of Damascus

636 Muslim Crusaders defeat Byzantines decisively at Battle of Yarmuk.

637 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iraq at the Battle of al—Qadisiyyah (some date it in 635 or 636)

638 Muslim Crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.

638—650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.

639—642 Muslim Crusaders conquer Egypt.

641 Muslim Crusaders control Syria and Palestine.

643—707 Muslim Crusaders conquer North Africa.

644 Caliph Umar is assassinated by a Persian prisoner of war; Uthman ibn Affan is elected third Caliph, who is regarded by many Muslims as gentler than Umar.

644—650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.

656 Caliph Uthman is assassinated by disgruntled Muslim soldiers; Ali ibn Abi Talib, son—in—law and cousin to Muhammad, who married the prophet's daughter Fatima through his first wife Khadija, is set up as Caliph.

656 Battle of the Camel, in which Aisha, Muhammad's wife, leads a rebellion against Ali for not avenging Uthman's assassination. Ali's partisans win.

657 Battle of Siffin between Ali and Muslim governor of Jerusalem, arbitration goes against Ali

661 Murder of Ali by an extremist; Ali's supporters acclaim his son Hasan as next Caliph, but he comes to an agreement with Muawiyyah I and retires to Medina.

661—680 the Caliphate of Muawiyyah I. He founds Umayyid dynasty and moves capital from Medina to Damascus

673—678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire

680 Massacre of Hussein (Muhammad's grandson), his family, and his supporters in Karbala, Iraq.

691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad's death.

705 Abd al—Malik restores Umayyad rule.

710—713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.

711—713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. This article recounts how Muslims today still grieve over their expulsion 700 years later. They seem to believe that the land belonged to them in the first place.

719 Cordova, Spain, becomes seat of Arab governor

732 The Muslim Crusaders stopped at the Battle of Poitiers; that is, Franks (France) halt Arab advance

749 The Abbasids conquer Kufah and overthrow Umayyids

756 Foundation of Umayyid amirate in Cordova, Spain, setting up an independent kingdom from Abbasids

762 Foundation of Baghdad

785 Foundation of the Great Mosque of Cordova

789 Rise of Idrisid amirs (Muslim Crusaders) in Morocco; foundation of Fez; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.

800 Autonomous Aghlabid dynasty (Muslim Crusaders) in Tunisia

807 Caliph Harun al—Rashid orders the destruction of non—Muslim prayer houses and of the church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem

809 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sardinia, Italy

813 Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country

831 Muslim Crusaders capture Palermo, Italy; raids in Southern Italy

850 Caliph al—Matawakkil orders the destruction of non—Muslim houses of prayer

855 Revolt of the Christians of Hims (Syria)

837—901 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy, France

869—883 Revolt of black slaves in Iraq

909 Rise of the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia; these Muslim Crusaders occupy Sicily, Sardinia

928—969 Byzantine military revival, they retake old territories, such as Cyprus (964) and Tarsus (969)

937 The Ikhshid, a particularly harsh Muslim ruler, writes to Emperor Romanus, boasting of his control over the holy places

937 The Church of the Resurrection (known as Church of Holy Sepulcher in Latin West) is burned down by Muslims; more churches in Jerusalem are attacked

960 Conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam

966 Anti—Christian riots in Jerusalem

969 Fatimids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Egypt and found Cairo

c. 970 Seljuks enter conquered Islamic territories from the East

973 Israel and southern Syria are again conquered by the Fatimids

1003 First persecutions by al—Hakim; the Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed

1009 Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al—Hakim (see 937)

1012 Beginning of al—Hakim's oppressive decrees against Jews and Christians

1015 Earthquake in Palestine; the dome of the Dome of the Rock collapses

1031 Collapse of Umayyid Caliphate and establishment of 15 minor independent dynasties throughout Muslim Andalus

1048 Reconstruction of the Church of the Resurrection completed

1050 Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (aka Murabitun) are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.

1055 Seljuk Prince Tughrul enters Baghdad, consolidation of the Seljuk Sultanate

1055 Confiscation of property of Church of the Resurrection

1071 Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks (Muslim Crusaders) defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia

1071 Turks (Muslim Crusaders) invade Palestine

1073 Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks (Muslim Crusaders)

1075 Seljuks (Muslim Crusaders) capture Nicea (Iznik) and make it their capital in Anatolia

1076 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) conquer western Ghana

1085 Toledo is taken back by Christian armies

1086 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) send help to Andalus, Battle of Zallaca

1090—1091 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) occupy all of Andalus except Saragossa and Balearic Islands

1094 Byzantine emperor Alexius Comnenus I asks western Christendom for help against Seljuk invasions of his territory; Seljuks are Muslim Turkish family of eastern origins; see 970


1095 Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099

Hows that for a thick real real wood(ie) fleshing out of my claims(facts). See , you should have took my word for it. As I said three hundred of Muslim aggression led up to the crusades.


reva


All of Christendom decided to do the Byzantines one better by declaring war on ALL of the various Caliphates and Muslim nations. You act as if all Islamdom was united as one entity, when it was much more like European nation states than you want to admit. It wasn't the Muslim nations as a collective that decided to "liberate" the Holy Land (which hadn't been occupied by Christians for HUNDREDS of years) and then murder every inhabitant that they found.[/QUOTE]

 

Picking out a voice which demands Christians use force to make people accept Jesus does not show Christianity agrees with such behavior.

But this thread is about the "flood."

My point here is that Genesis specifically tells us that all humans were the product of 22 different forebearers, now identifiable as 22 species in our evolution from the very first man, (born 7 million years ago).
That one first man was formed because of an Act-of-God that fused two chromosomes together.

We read further that these forefathers all lived for century long duration, called years, which would have been impossible.
Clearly the writers had no other choice here, as the duration means millennium.
Humans do not live 900 years, but many species did exist for 900,000 years.

We read further that for 40 "days" of these millenium and 40 "nights" of these millennium, a great passing away of all mankind took place.

This was a massive extinction facing mankind.

The end result was that three breeds of mankind we all that existed from one of the species which did not go extinct.
Called Modern Homo sapiens today, we did not go extinct.

These facts related by the Bible to people who even today can not grasp the factual concepts seems good enough reason to conclude the tale was expressed slightly metaphorically out of necessity.

 

Of course, this opens the door for the thoughtful person to say the possibility exists that the entirety of the Bible is an allegory because God does not think humans can understand factual concepts.

 

Again, you do EXACTLY what I criticized you for in your previous post without even addressing the criticism. Muslim Crusaders? What the hell does that mean? Your "exhaustive" list is a mish mash of random Muslim nations randomly conquering territory in random places. Some of the time conquering fellow Muslim nations and taking THEIR lands. The fact of the matter is that the Byzantines asked for help against one Muslim horde, and the Christian world decided to declare war on all of Islam.

 

I said you lied about me, which you did, and you have been called out on it several times.

Another lie. Africa had nothing to do with my own experience, and I never claimed it did. And you had already brought up the persecution of Christians overseas, but suddenly it is off limits when we talk about the Christians overseas behaving badly?

And no. I never said I was persecuted.

If you had bothered to read my previous posts, the answer is yes. Yes, Christians are being persecuted and they have been for quite some time.

In order to answer your question, I'd have to know what you consider persecution. What churches here are being persecuted? Is anyone here persecuting Christians.

 

HOW are they identifiable as DIFFERENT SPECIES? As far as I remember, I don't remember the Bible talking about any other Homo species except humans themselves.

Or, you know, they wanted to embellish. The exhaustive list of Babylonian kings does the same thing, I think Gilgamesh was purported to have ruled for hundreds of years too. You're saying "clearly" here, like you aren't just making up mumbo jumbo to justify why your Holy Book flat out doesn't make sense.

"Well, it it doesn't make sense, then it must MEAN SOMETHING HIDDEN!"

Or, you know, it could just not make sense.

And serpents don't speak, and woman wasn't made from man's rib. You're expecting a book of MYTHOLOGY to make clear and literal sense. It won't. BECAUSE IT IS MYTH.

Except it didn't take the other human species 40 millenia to die out, that wouldn't make any bloody sense.

And yet not once have you EVER faced a criticism head on to your "hypothesis". And I wouldn't consider changing every single word of the Bible to match up with modern scientific knowledge a slight metaphor.

 

Wrong, but keep going. It hasn't stopped you yet.

Talk about it all you want. I stand by my claims.

Sure you did....plagued, horrible, night terrors, forced. Sounds like persecution to me.

Bad form to answer a question with a question. I accept your surrender.

 

Wow. RevAnarchist was clearly supporting you with what he just said. And your response to him is to call him a bigot? And you claim WE have the hatred here? You're denouncing people who are actually arguing for you. Incredible ineptitude.

 

If I'm wrong, you could show me where.

Then we don't share the same definition, which is why I asked you for clarification of your definition, which you refused. If they had forced me as an adult, that would be persecution. If they had knowingly and willingly been responsible for my night terrors, that would have been persecution.

I didn't surrender anything. I can't answer your question unless you clarify what you mean by persecution. Which you are now evading.

 

Asked and answered.

Yeah, I know. You were persecuted.

So now you want to define persecution? You sure as hell didn't want to before when you used it. You bashers are a joke. From you--------------

Quote Originally Posted by yardmeat View Post
Because you keep lying and saying that we are claiming the persecution of Christians does not exist

So what does persecution mean basher?

 

Asked, but no answer yet answered.

Your words, not mine.

What? When did I ever say that I didn't want it defined? When did you ask me for a definition?

. . . and?

lol, I'm a basher for acknowledging the existence of persecution against Christians? Anyway, I would define persecution as the unprovoked and intentional physical or psychological harassment of another human being based on their beliefs, sexuality, race, etc. So yes, Christians are persecuted based on this definition, and yes they persecute based on this definition. I, however, was not persecuted based on this definition. The worst of the effects that I suffered were not intentional on the part of the SBC.

 

No, there are not two ways to take that post. You called him out for name calling when not once in that post did he call you a name. He even called the people posting against you "christian haters". I mean, wow, dude. You're malicious for literally no reason, even against people who support you. But you go ahead and keep calling us full of hatred

Why don't you point out what this other, mysterious, interpretation of his post could be?

 

Oh so now there is persecution of Christians. Now what churches here in the USA persecute?

 

Now? Is there some magic number of yeses that I have to give that will make this sink in? I acknowledged the persecution of Christians several days and several pages ago, and I've continued to do so periodically since then, and I've correctly your numerous accusations to the contrary.

The Westboro Baptist Church, the various churches involved in homosexual "reeducation" camps, and of course there is the attempted persecution on the part of Dominionists.

 

Two posts ago you said you didn't know what 'persecution' meant as you asked me to define it. Then I showed you where you used the word prior meaning you did know what it meant or you use words you do not understand. So cut the crap.

How do those churches persecute? Who forces them to attend? Keep stretching.

 

I didn't say I didn't understand. I asked you for your definition since we clearly were not using the same ones. Again, I acknowledged the persecution of Christians several days and several pages ago, and I have continued to do so every time you have lied about my position.

So not only had you never heard of the persecution by Christians in Africa, but you also haven't heard of the Westboro Baptists. The WBC doesn't wait around for people to attend their church. They harass people in public. Funerals are their particular forte.

 

The Westboro Church is doing what Jesus did when he turned over the tables in the synagogue.
They are demanding attention from a media which ignores them otherwise.

Turning over the tables will get media attention to hear these people protest the advancement of Gayness out in the open as a sexual act in kind.
The church believes naked dress codes pornographic business advertising for everything, feminist promotion of No Fault Divorce, support for illegitimate babies, and everything teaching promiscuity is OK needs be stopped.

Their approach to be heard is the kind of strong expression all churches need imitate.
If sexual promiscuity continues, America will follow the other societies into ruin.

 

Jesus never picketed a child's funeral and capitalized on the suffering of the innocent in order to get extra time in front of the camera.

They don't care about converting anyone. The literally revel in the idea of the damnation of others.

Their approach is that kind of callousness that no empathetic human could ever bring themselves to imitate.

Give me personal responsibility over a theocracy any day of the week.

By the way, I was under the impression that you were Catholic. You . . . uh . . . you reaaaaaally don't want to hear what they have to say about Catholics.

 

I've seen it. What a steaming pile of comedy moments. Those such as her align themselves with real suffering while maintaining no clue.

 

What about it is comedic? Do you doubt that there are Christians undergoing such persecution, or do you find their suffering amusing?

 

Do you know why Jesus turned the tables over? That Pharisees were simply cheating poor people. Every time they changed money from Roman coin to shekels they took a commission.

The Westboro church is a family of perverted losers and hate mongers..

 

Oh, oh,...
Then you agree that the Bible was correct in that first verse.
Fine.

What about the next verses?

Do you deny Science does support them?


Gen 1:2 says the formless disk of rocks rotation the Sun was void of global shape, which was true.

Gen 1:3-5 says the Dark Cosmic Age existed before there was any light in the Universe.

Gen 1:6-8 describes the forming of an atmosphere above and waters below.

Gen 1:9-10 describes "all the waters under heaven gathered together into one place," which was a Pangea-like truth.

Gen 1:11-13 explains that the Plant Kingdom came before the Animal Kingdom, which was true.

Gen 1:14-19 tells us that God assigned the Sun and Moon and Stars to keep time on Earth. ("made" in Hebrew means "assigned.")

Gen 1:20-31 explains about the animals diversifying into herds of mamals, and finally, man, made to image "Reality," mentally, in the form of Truth inside his mind.