Genitalia vs Chromosomes: what makes you male of female?

No it's not delusional. You want to be 60, are living as if you were 60, and feel better if people accomodate that. Wanting to be something you are not is a dysfunctional desire, but not a delusion.

 

And I won't waste time with someone who routinely erases half of other people's post and then goes on to quote them out of context and deny their very own words.

I said good day. Good day sir !

 

Part of delusions is living in a dysfunctional manner.

So if I was 18 and demanded the world call me 30, could I call them bigots if I went to buy age restricted products and was denied?

 

HOW does that make it a "societal issue"? And what does "societal issue" mean, anyway? Does it mean that the fact that the President making it a point that transgender people should not feel bad about themselves makes it YOUR business what people do in their private lives with the genetic endowment with which they were born, or what?

 

:facepalm: The paradigm for medicine is to help the patient live in reality. Reality determines itself, not people.

 

Nope, medicine is only about helping people to live a higher quality and/or longer life. The appropriate treatment is what accomplishes that best.

 

No, delusion is believing something to be true that is demonstrably false. Trans people do not, generally, actually believe they were physically born of the opposite gender. Rather, they feel distress because they want to be the gender and are reminded they are not. Reality does not match their desires, so they try to find a way to live closer to their desires. Not by delusion, but just by changing how they live and how they look.

I'm not really a fan of age-based laws, but there are limits. An athletic organization ought to be free to declare that those born male are at an unfair advantage and can't compete. If an age-based law is there to ensure the safety of other people (often the intent), the safety of other people can be cited as a reason for not accommodating another person's request.

 

As for all these arguments the right makes about 'delusion' etc., I'm not for that, it's derogatory and disrespectful, I mean, walk a mile in someone's shoes before you disparage them.

The XX male syndrome, aka the 'de la chapelle syndrome', occurs in 1 in 20-30k persons, so it's rare.

I tend to side with conservatives on this issue, sort of, but not completely, we have differences.

If you are intersex (have both genitalia), you can choose. That's one in 2000, statistically.

If you have male genitalia, despite chromosome anomaly, you're a male

If you have male genitalia and want to dress as a female, you are an effeminate male.

If you have male genitalia, have female chromosomes, and get an operation, you are female. These folks, if they ask me, I will accept that they are real women. they got the op, and they have XX chromosomes, That's enough.

I have no problem calling an effeminate male as a 'she' if they prefer it and vice veraa.

So, biologically ambiguous can choose.

The biologically non ambigous are effeminate males or masculine females.

What they choose to call themselves, I'm okay with it and will oblige.

However, I draw the line on 'non binary' insofar as 'they = singular'. No can do.

However, if an effeminate male asks me if I believe 'she' is a woman, I will say what I think, that she is an effeminate male. If they don't want me to say it, don't ask. Until someone presents me with an argument more compelling than my own and changes my mind, I have to say what I think, I can't help it. I'm not going to lie. But, I won't raise the issue unless they do.

Let's exclude intersex and biological ambiguity, and if you are male or female, biologically, and feel for the opposite sex, accept what you are, and what you are is either an effeminate male or a masculine female. That's what you are, and what you want to call yourself is another subject, really. I think it's more healthy to accept what one is, rather than pretend one is something other than what one is. But, when it comes to documents, birth certs, driver's licenses,I say go by the above arguments.

But, above all else, everyone deserves respect and should not be discriminated against.

As for women's sports, if you have male chromosomes and male genitalia, despite the fact that you want to dress and be female on the exterior, due to biology, you shouldn't be allowed in women's sports, it's not fair.

As for vice versa, good luck trying to win as born female competing with males. If you win, you deserve it.

 

My point has been made.

It is time to move on.

 

So do you believe that if a trans person actually believes that they were born the opposite physical gender, that, that person is then delusional?

 

The matrix is real my friend. There is an ultimate reality that is completely independent and unchanged by people's perception of it and only to the degree that people correctly grasp that reality... Do they see the real world.

But if they embrace a false reality and are not aware of it.... Welcome to the blue pill

 

Sure that's possible, but that's not usually the case. They wouldn't need hormones or gender affirming surgery if they were delusional like that.

 

My point is not just about XX males. That's just one example. I am showing that the problem is way more complex than the right would like to make it to be.

As I said, there are many other clusters of cells that we ALL have that typically correspond to the opposite sex. Which of those determine sexual preference, behavior, etc... is unknown.

The main point of my post is that it's NOBODY'S business. These people ARE, for whatever reason, females in a male body, or males in a female body, or... even other possibilities.

Everybody can choose. WE have no right to decide who can choose and who can't. If you are in any situation whatsoever in which you even feel the need to choose, then you are one of those who has some form of DSD. And nobody but YOU will have to live with making the wrong choice.

It's amazing that the right that used to call themselves "libertarians" are the first to object to personal freedom.

 

You can't even say what "societal issue" means in this context... Much less make any point. But, clearly, that's all we can expect from you. Carry on!

 

YOU can choose. That wasn't the point. But, your 'choice' cannot dictate another's thoughts.

If an effeminate male wants me to treat 'her' as a woman, I will oblige, but 'she' cannot force anyone to nor is she 'entitled' to it.

That's the point. There are some exceptions, which I've detailed in my previous response.

 

Not true.

I just don't find it worthwhile to chase down every nonsensical obfuscation that you so frequently throw around. My point has been made and there is no reason to continue.

It is as simple as that.

 

The number of people whose DNA does not match their genitalia is vanishingly small. What you want to do to your self as an adult is your business. What some third party does to a child against the wishes of the child's parents is not.

 

Nobody can dictate another's thoughts on anything whatsoever. That's just a general statement.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see what this has to do with this topic. Nobody can force anyone to do anything. But everybody is entitled to be treated with respect.

And I'm not talking about gender equality. This either applies to everything, or it doesn't apply to anything.

Nobody's entitled to anything that affects others. You're not entitled to steal, murder, or punch somebody in the face. But if somebody decides to cut off their junk... that's their decision. What I'm conveying is that people who would WANT to do that are unlikely doing it because it's "cool". They're doing it because there is some form of DSD based on genetics or chromosomes. Aand they want to live as happy as they can. In this society, there are many factors that might impede that. One of them is bigotry. But, as of late, another one is politics. Breitbart, Tucker, Fox... fill in segment after segment selling intolerance. The only thing we should never tolerate is intolerance.

 

But those in a position of authority can influence people to permanently alter their bodies in a futile attempt to treat gender dysphoria. If an adult decides to remove their junk, they should be able to do it if they can afford it.

 

More than red headed people 1.5 -2%. On top of that EDCs (Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals) polluting the environment may increase that percentage. You want to make this less of an issue - take your focus off the victims and join the stance against EDCs in the environment

 

No that is harder than you think - look at the case of Davis Reimer

https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-...gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case

 

What makes you male or female biologically speaking is the size of the gametes you produce. If small you are male if large you are female.

And these things directly correspond with genitalia and chromosomes. So it's rather pedantic too pretend like there's a differentiation.

 

Are they? I cannot find where this is actually happening beyond a small group of social activists making money from the controversy

 

Does biology “say” that? Biology encompasses all variations. If you doubt me check out the UNSW Embryology text that is free online

 

I just refuse to have people sit here and turn biology on its head and tell me that this is the new normal and that I'm supposed to go along with it or I'm somehow a bigot.

People don't get to redefine science and words according to their agenda and their ideology.
That's not the way it works in this world. And even if you think it does no one can be forced to go along with such things