Hell is the Invention of the Chruch

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIREJVPfQY"]Priest says Hell is an invention of the church to control people with fear - YouTube[/ame]

A very interesting video, very much supports my notion of a fear based doctrine.

 

More aptly the priest describes an enforced child/adult relationship. While it includes fear of punishment it also offers the hope of reward. If you want to find historical evidence of a purely fear based relationship you won't have to look far. But you have to ask yourself whether those incidents are indicative of the whole. If you watch this video you have to realize that this priest and people who think like him are the bane of anti-theist AND fundamentalist.

 

Oh my goodness. Faux priest..... Faux Christian-- because he believes the opposite of Jesus's teachings in the Bible and sings his own tune.

...interesting guy. Is he the one that Obama likes so much...that used to speak in Obama's church?

 

Thanks for that video. I decided a long time ago it is insane for any *man* to *know* what the *one, true* way is. It isn't logical, and we are not divine.

As for Hell. I do not believe in eternal punishment. That is not logical either, from a God who sent Christ to die for our sins.

I do not think they have that concept in Islam. ?

I do worry about what the afterlife is. And how my life now affects it.

I don't want to be a wandering spirit, for instance. If they exist.

I don't want to come back as a cockroach, if reincarnation is true.

 

Hell is never mentioned in the original Bible, it is a somewhat recent invention.

 

If an afterlife, your life ought to be the determining factor, not a blind devotion.

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius

 

Yes it is.

Get your facts straight, as we JUST had this discussion - It is in the NT, not the OT. Guess what the Bible is made up of?

I would like to know how the ocncept could just be made up by the church?

That being said, and as I have long stated (we've already had this discussion), much of the mdern concept of hell and its detail come not from the church, but from Dante.

Wouldn't it be nice if atheists could acknowledge pertinent facts and get them straight even once?

 

Well, the wisdom of atheism.

Well, You should just care about yourself! (Be we are not self worshippers!) I mean no point in figuring out what this life is all about or its purpose.

And, once again our flame baiting basher here, certainly cannot prove there is no God, ignores preponderance of the evidence cases, and simply decides that anyone with a different faith is blind and irrational.



Yep, best to be an atheist so you can walk around crapping on people - then your life will be fulfilled.

 

I like that quote!

But.

If there are Gods, and they are unjust, I still want to please them. I mean, eternity is a long time...........

 

Sounds like a good bumper sticker:

Be an Atheist so you can walk around crapping on people
.................... (then your life will be fulfilled)..........................

 

Just want to point out this guy is not a "Catholic priest"--he's a retired Episcopal priest, and the Episcopal church has had a lot of issues with a veritable schism between conservative theology and radically liberal theology. Spong is of the latter group.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/div_epis.htm

 

Um not entirely acurate there are about 54 instances of the word hell in the Bible. The KJV is the most acurate English version though the Greek versions support this (we use Hades alot in place of Hell) Here are a few:

Deuteronomy 32:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

22For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

23I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.


Psalm 18:4-6

4The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.

5The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.

Psalm 55:15
Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.

Isaiah 14:14-16
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment


Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

Wait, what original bible,you mean OT ? Please clarify.

 

Hell in the OT is not like the Christian version of hell.

It is called Sheol.

Sheol is at best a place of waiting, at worst a place of nothing.

The Priest hits the nail on the head when he talks about how the Church ramped up the fear factor to enhance its control over people.

 

Hell is not in the OT.

Hell is in the NT. The Church did not invent anything at all, much less due to fear. Its the reality of siding with evil. If that makes you afraid ... not the churches fault.

 

Jesus is the expert on hell. If you don't follow Jesus then of course you are not a Christian and don't believe in hell.

There is no use debating something like this...if you aren't a believer of the New Testament....which holds the foundation of Christianity.

 

The Church focused on the fear factor !

The concept of punishment in the afterlife is not new.

For the Egyptians their deeds were put on the Scales of Justice. If they were found too light then they were eaten by a monster and that was it.

It was Christianity that ramped up the fear factor .. "eternal punishment" in the afterlife.

This was the natural evolution. The Ancients knew the power of Religion to control the masses. Introducing the "fear factor" increased that control.

Muhammad learned this principle well. Every second page of Quran uses the fear factor.

 

That is why I am glad to say that I am not a part of that 'church' that you reference.... The Church to which I am a member focuses of trust in the Lord and Love of God.

 

What "original Bible" are you referring to? And as far as "recent" how recent do you mean?

 

Exactly! Ironically, no where is he'll mentioned more than in the Sermon on the mount.

 

No, actually you are.

Here are some of the larger denominations and what they project:

http://www.catholic.org/

http://www.elca.org/

http://lds.org/?lang=eng

http://www.abc-usa.org/

Now, that stands in sharp contrast to a group that DOES use fear tactics: atheists!

http://www.atheists.org/religion

If you are religious - YOU WILL CAUSE WAR AND SUFFERING!!! HAHAHAHAH!!!

But you are against fear mongering are you?

No (*)(*)(*)(*), neither is the concept of reward. The concept of Hell as spelled out in Christianity and beginning with a fallen angel ... that is.

Right, right, right ... because Hades was not permenant.

Basic fact checks help a lot.

Really, so Baal worship, Mayan/Aztec sacrifical religions, and Paganism with its spells are at the top of the pack are they? Because people fear MORE what might happen to them in the after life than someone threatening them right here and now do they?

Well, Stalin and his ilk learned a different tact - if you tell a lie often enough ... it basically becomes the truth (only it doesn't - its still a lie).

 

Love is good, and trusting in the wise words of Jesus is good !

There are many good Church Leaders. I know and have known many of which I hold in the highest respect.

It is the abusers and the control freaks that irritate me... and those that claim to speak for God.

 

Are they members of a 501c3 church? If they are then they are not "good". Of course the 'wise words of Jesus is good' and one of the wise things that he said is "there is none that is GOOD, no, not one".

You see, mans classification of what is good and what is bad are all subjective. However, what Jesus says is 'good' is 'good', and in the case as it was, Jesus was talking about mankind... none are 'good'. So much for that theory of yours.

"Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God. "

Distorted perceptions of good and bad that man has... hmmm.

 

I do not think tax exempt status has anything to do with it to be honest.

Good quotes: Notice that Jesus does not claim to be God .. in fact he claims the opposite in this passage. If you read 16-18 you see what Jesus says one need do to get eternal life which is in contradiction to what Paul says.

Jesus says nothing about faith in him when asked the question directly.

A very clear question.

A very clear answer. Jesus goes on to say "follow me" if one wants to be perfect and give instruction to follow his commands.

Nothing is said about "Faith" in the idea that Jesus was God or that Jesus was resurrected was needed to enter heaven.

The ideas of Paul were not accepted by James and Peter and why they did not consider Paul one of their own.