Is Atheism a logical belief?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by The Last American, Oct 29, 2021.

  1. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Your post just proved my point. Too many people judge based on "what it sounds like" according to their own views and experiences, ignoring everything that doesn't fit. That was exactly the point of my post.

    I'm an atheist, always have been, but I'm aware that any opposition to religion and theism must be built on solid ground, or not at all. I'm not going to reject something just because I've been told I should. I need to understand what it is that I'm rejecting, and why billions disagree with me. I need to put things in the proper context.

    Religions are a constant feature of human societies since the dawn of history, a huge part of our cultural inheritance. The existing religions are the product of millennia of human thought, human creativity, human fears and hopes. Rejecting religions and religious beliefs as mere bigotry is the wrong approach to a phenomenon spanning the whole world throughout human history.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
  2. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    I have knowledge. What are you asserting I am ignorant of?
     
  3. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    The physical universe would perish withhout the practice of religious rituals? That is a new one, please explain.
     
  4. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    i doubt my post proved your point because I haven’t judged anything. I really don’t understand what you are talking about.

    “That's one reason faith has always been so important, so central to people's lives. The tradition endured despite the loss of meaning.”

    It sounds like you are trying to justify worshiping god by saying traditions have no meaning. Or are you saying that since traditions have no meaning faith is all that worshippers have to move forward?

    Personally, I think religions are chock full of meaning as are the holidays associated with religions. I would argue that the main appeal of religion is that it gives people a sense of meaning in an otherwise meaningless universe.
     
  5. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    The meaning of life is to give life meaning.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
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  6. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    I think the quest for meaning is just a result of our frontal lobe being over-developed. Seeing meaning in things was an evolutionary advantage that made us better hunters and gatherers but the skill also has the unintended effect of making us see meaning where none actually exists.
     
  7. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    As I've said countless times, the word God is just a title, like Coach. It does not identify a specific deity out of the thousands that people have favored throughout history. Each God has a specific unique name, personality, and attributes. Therefore, would you please specify by name which God you are gaga over? There's about 6 in the Bible you can pick.

    BTW, it is estimated that there is over three hundred thirty million (330,000,000) assorted Gods that people have worshipped at one time or another. So don't be bashful, and name yours.

    edit typo
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
  8. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ.
     
  9. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    So, eat and die? That's it?
     
  10. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    There is a third thing that rhymes with truck.
     
  11. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    Seems like a pessimistic philosophy.
     
  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    So, your deity is only 2,000 years old. The universe is billions of years old.
     
  14. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Because I don’t believe that all of humanity is damned to hell unless we pay obeisance to a jealous God that can’t be bothered to demonstrate its existence?
     
  15. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    Oh, I never mentioned God.
     
  16. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Ahh you caught me!
     
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  17. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Strictly speaking, the biblical hell is temporary and everyone will get out on Judgment Day. When you die you will go to one of three places = death, hell, or the sea. Then, on Judgment Day, all three places give up their beings and the beings are judged by their works, Those who pass can then get into the golden cube called New Jerusalem, that sits on waterless planet that doesn't have any darkness behind a high wall. Of course, the good folks have to pass through one of the twelve gates dedicated to each of the twelve tribes of Israel. The fairy tale does not say that Gentiles will make it. All of the failed souls will be tossed into the lake of fire, along with death and hell, which is the second death. But they won't spend eternity in hell.

    Most casual religious people actually believe in the Islamic version of hell rather than the biblical version. In the Islamic fairy tale when you die you stay dead until Judgment Day, Then, you are resurrected and judged according to your works. The ones that don't make the grade end up in hell, where they are tortured viscously for eternity. Most of the people in the Islamic hell are women. The good guys each get their own paradise shell, with all of the comforts, including a harem, a couple of 90 foot tall translucent women creatures, and a herd of cute boys. In addition, they have eternal erections and rivers of wine.

    In the Islamic version, children can go to paradise. There is no mention of children getting into the golden cube called New Jerusalem.

    So, know your hells because they are all different. And remember, even Jesus went to hell.
     
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  18. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Is Atheism a logical belief?
    SUBTOPIC: Existence and Powers
    ※→ Injeun, et al,

    BLUF: The Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR)(Gottfried Leibniz, philosopher, mathematician, metaphysics, epistemology, logic, philosophy of religion)(1646-1716) argues against the idea of "randomness" or the "unexplainable." Even if a study is inconclusive, and the results are indeterminate, there is a reason behind the event under examination.

    (COMMENT)

    At the outset, there is NO scientific evidence that God either exists or does not exist. The question (existence or nonexistence) has results that are inconclusive. What we do know is that the first part of the commentary must be (Positive • there is an ancient God) for any of the second part inferences to make sense.

    ◈ The first part of the "Injeun commentary" does not contradict the PSR, but neither does it provide evidence or a sufficient reason why serious consideration should be given to: "God behind them is the same today" (Monotheism is the belief in one God). The statement makes two inferences:​

    • That there is an ancient God. (Positive)​
    • That there is only one ancient God.

    ◈ The second part of the "Injeun commentary" does not contradict the PSR and, it as well, has nothing objective to evaluate - given the inferences are:

    • The God speaks.
    • The God is wise.
    • The God makes human-like value judgments (as HE sees fitting).
    • The God works in its own interests (to fulfill HIS will).
    • The God fulfills promises.
    ( ≈Ω )

    The point is, that the first part (existence) must be tackled before anything else is addressed. Imbedded in the First Question is the subplot: Is it a Norse God, a Greek/Roman God, the God of Abraham, is it a Wiccan Guardian, the Ancients of the American Indian, or what?

    The parallel plot is the adjacent question is on the matter of the Supernatural Powers (Magic - Alchemy).

    While the "Injeun" comment sounds very straightforward and relatively plain; if you take the question seriously (giving it the thought it deserves).

    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  19. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    My response was to your statement: "The belief in God stems from the ancient stories of God pasted down from generation to generation. The belief is totally based on faith in these ancient stories and not objective reality."
     
  20. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    God is eternal. He offered himself in sacrifice two thousand years ago. You are eternal as well. Jesus put away his life in service to the Father and to all mankind. It is always those who go before us who make the way for us to follow, blessed by their sufferings, that they have born the brunt of it all. Yes the way is narrow and straight. But it is there. There are many we call explorers, scientists, Fathers of this or that endeavor, patriots, pioneers, pathfinders and groundbreakers. But there is only one Savior who accomplished the ultimate. Is it so very odd?
     
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  21. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    What did he sacrifice?
     
  22. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Nobody has complete knowledge.

    You wondered why does one have to believe in god. There are very good reasons - from a religious point of view - anchored deep in the distant past, and I just explained one of them.
     
  23. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    This is what people believed, yes. Some still do.

    Following are two examples of renewal rituals.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/fe...ce-of-seasonal-renewal-in-ancient-Mesopotamia

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0185257415300046
     
  24. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    Yes. Forum like this one combine religion and philosophy. I am interested in philosophy but not religion.
     
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  25. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    If it makes you happy, continue to believe it. But just remember, not one real person in all of history has ever had real faith in the Jesus character, and that includes you. No one has ever passed his simple test.
     

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