Is healthcare a "right?"

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by John Sample, Jan 30, 2019.

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  1. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    They do make money by denying claims, yes, it is true.
    There is no other reason to so.
     
  2. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    So you've never read the instructions or warranty for a product? Or how about bought anything on a credit card, a payment plan, or taken out a loan?

    There is paperwork to read, same with any type of insurance, regardless if it's health insurance or car insurance or home/renters insurance. Caveat Emptor.
     
  3. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    That is what we are talking about here.
    You are against people who had bad experience with health insurances.
    It could be that your employer provided you with good insurance (at the expense of the taxpayers of course).

    If US a democracy everyone should have equal access to every insurance that exist on the market.
     
  4. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? If that were the game, then they would pay no claims at all, because that is more profitable to them. Yes, I am rolling my eyes.

    If someone pays for a burger and fries, then expects a steak and potato, who is at fault?
     
  5. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Um...actually there's lots of reasons to deny claims...
    • Not covered by the policy.
    • Procedure is experimental.
    • Lack of prior authorization or referral.
    • Inaccurate physician coding.
    • Incomplete or inaccurate insurance information.
    So again...if, as you claim, health insurance companies are denying claims to make money then why do you bother having health insurance? If you're paying monthly premiums AND paying for the medical services when, as you say, they get denied by the insurer, then it seems silly for you to have health insurance.
     
  6. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Multiple phantoms in one post, kudos.
    Please quote EXACTLY where I said I was against people who have bad experiences with insurance.
    Please quote EXACTLY where I said my insurance is subsidized by taxpayers.

    My employer offers several different plans, for which they contribute a percentage. The rest of the premium is on me. No one else is paying for it.

    Define what you consider 'equal access', because we both know if 'everybody' was offered a choice between a Ford Fit and a Lexus 350, which they would choose. Now, if you are talking about paying for it, anybody and everybody is welcome to whatever they want, if they can pay for it.
     
  7. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You do not care how they run their business, nor do you have even the slightest inkling as to how healthcare is run. Your lack of understanding is not evidence of fraud. It is evidence of your ignorance.

    We have covered the anesthesiology angle completely, so lets cover another aspect that you clearly do NOT understand that also proves your theory incorrect. Health insurance is a heavily regulated and highly competitive industry. They can only charge a small percentage over their outlays from the previous year for their premiums the following year. Because they make a small percentage over their outlays, an insurance company makes MORE money when outlays are more rather than the reverse. In other words, an insurance company makes twice the money if every subscriber spent 10k per year in medical services, versus if they spent 5k. The benefit that an insurance company gets in denying a claim is in lowering the prices that they charge the following year and how that helps them to sell more policies; rather than the short term goal of saving that money when the procedure is performed.Profitability for an insurance company is in the long term.The higher the outlay, the more money an insurance company makes, both in terms of the cost of premiums, AND in the investment income that arises from the investment of those premiums. Nobody is happier about the exorbitant costs of healthcare outlays than are the insurers. Your mistaken belief stands in direct contrast to this reality.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
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  8. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Other than 'not covered by policy' most of those could be appealed, and quite possibly, paid. Especially the last three.
     
  9. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Yes, correct. The claims that get denied for incorrect coding don't even need to be appealed. Those automatically go into a queue and worked on to get the correct rev code, procedure code, etc and then those claims will get paid.
     
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  10. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    They are so obsessed with not helping the poor and neediest, that they don’t realize where most of their tax dollars go....
     
  11. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is very convoluted and complicated process, it needs to be replaced with Medicare for All.
     
  12. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is it your belief that Medicare does not also deny treatments? Is it your belief that you dont get a separate bill from anesthesia when on Medicare?

    Healthcare is complex and confusing, regardless of the payor.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  13. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Because it makes it illegal to pay them below the new minimum wage, obviously.
    Government can't raise their wages. It can only make it illegal to hire them for less than minimum wage.
     
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  14. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing can be simpler then equal rights to the health care access.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to say more than that.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I agree that hospitals are not easy places to sleep.

    If they were talking to you in Tagalog then that would have been weird for sure.
     
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    McConnell and Boehner had just come off a catastrophic defeat.

    They stated that this bill would be used as a demonstration that though they were in the minority, they still had power to kill legislation.

    They failed. But, the fact remains that their votes were simply a demonstration of partisanship.

    Let's remember that Republicans were part of the design team from beginning to end.

    Let's remember that when the bill reached the point where changes required the amendment process, Republicans contributed more than 160 amendments that were voted into the ACA.

    Claiming it wasn't bipartisan is nonsense.
     
  18. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some patients understand that language. But when it is 2 am and the very ill patient is trying to sleep, it is lousy for nurses to be talking loudly outside the open hospital room door.
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is no claim. Why didn't you use CSPAN and actually watch them debate ACA? My god, you make it seem the republicans got what they wanted. But they were rather rudely and daily shot down in both houses of congress. Your side won so why try to make it seem the republicans were the winners?

    I said in the House a claim of bipartisanship on the floor can be be claimed. Not so in the Senate.
     
  20. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Canadians are far more rational than the American left.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I've said as much.

    I'm a little lost as to what this has to do with our healthcare system. All hospitals with ER facilities get help from our taxes. Many others do as well. However, the vast majority of our healthcare is provided by private enterprise. There are exceptions, such as some of VA.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Careful there, Professor.

    There are key issues were Canada is farther left than the American left.
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe a lot is said about health as though there is this magic system designed for all. But there are services offered to us all. We all can choose to pay for the services, elect to not pay, elect to file bankruptcy and perhaps other options.

    You mention taxes for hospitals. The homeless bum sleeping in the park will get treatment though he never paid for it.

    Government has a role. To promote the general welfare of all of us. This is not paying the rent for those unable to pay rent.
    https://www.thebalance.com/welfare-programs-definition-and-list-3305759
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    "Got what they wanted" is definitely NOT a sign of bipartisanship. It's a sign of autocracy.

    And no, Democrats absolutely did NOT get what they wanted. Is there a public option? No. Is the system a single payer system? No. Are all Americans covered? No, though more are covered there were millions still not covered. Was the system reasonably protected against assault? No, Republicans have been seriously damaging the ACA on a regular basis. Was there a reasonable integration of Medicare and the ACA? No. There are still to very separate systems - three once you add VA. Four if you add Medicaid. In fact, it's probably legit to consider corporate healthcare a fifth system (made of thousands of systems, actually). Why do we have 5 systems and STILL can't cover everyone - like every other industrialized country does?

    And, the reason was that there was another party that had full representation!
     
  25. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, I've already posted that 5 times. Medicare/Medicaid has 400% MORE fraud per insured. There goes your Medicare for all, it becomes Fraud for all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
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