Is Jesus divine?

You can say anything you want. Read it for yourself and, with the right heart, it's intent will be revealed to you. Many read just to demean it. They will remain lost. God wants to reach all and He wishes that none perish. You do not have to depend on a Church or Priest. God made His Word available to all. John was the only disciple to remain at the foot of the cross with Mary, that was around 33 A.D. He witnessed the persecution of the Church, and wrote the Gospel of John AND 3 letters to the CHurches that were indicative of his writing style. Realizing that there has always been plenty that would love to dispel John's account, I understand your premise. It is tragic.

 

No, He claimed to be "the only begotten son of God". You read it the way you desire and omit what contradicts your narrative. Begotten means Jesus came out of God.....the only one to ever do so. Jesus was with God in the beginning and through out . He was referred to many many times in the OT years before He took on human flesh and became a man.

 

Everybody interprets the scriptures to suit themselves. What makes you any different by presuming to reason God away scripturally. Jesus has already said there is no eternal life in the scriptures. So he beat you to it. He said eternal life is in him. Do you think you are greater than Jesus? You say you regard Jesus as a preacher in his own name, but not his Fathers, who you say is non existent. Jesus said, "I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." So you align with those Jews to whom he spoke...the spitting image.

Are there not enough obligations in a day to labor, that for rest you'd put down your tools to malign God?

 

so Trevor. You are your own god

 

I suggest you study the times in which the Gospels were written. So often we read of great crowds/multitudes following Jesus, yet these people were often on the breadline in those days. Did they actually leave their workplace for a few days. Did their 'employers' give them permission? They supposedly travelled many miles - keeping the taxi firms busy no doubt. They gathered on the mountainside and Jesus used his microphone so they could all hear. The sermon on the mount was recorded on a machine so Matthew could post it verbatim (3 chapters) decades later. It's all exagerrated. I have no doubt the Jewish preacher Jesus spoke to groups of people. Had he really attracted crowds the Romans would have had him under observation due to the false 'messiahs' that kept attracting crowds of followers. Some Messiahs who were belligerents and had to be dealt with. But the Romans took no interest as far as we know. Even guarding Jesus tomb would have been left to the Temple Guards. As Pilate said 'See YOU to it'. At Passover the Romans usually introduced more troops into Jerusalem as it was often a protest time by Jews visiting Jerusalem. In any case Jesus burial was no threat to them.
Most of the parables of Jesus are related to the Jewish conception of their relationship to god. This can be seen by studying the OT. Jesus preached to the Jews. The disciples would not have accepted the idea a vicarious sacrifice as each man is responsible for his own sins.

 

We are all our own gods. You think you pay obedience to an unkown supernatural being. Unfortunately he does not exist. It's simply your need to believe in something outside yourself.

 

You've defined your own faith. Followers of Jesus understand. Don't be so defensive.

 

Given the posts I've put on here most would call me offensive rather than defensive.

 

No Trevor, all you have done is express your faith. Perhaps someday life may not be too rosey for you and you will come to the end of yourself.....like many of us have.

 

I don't believe this resolves the issue of the differences in beliefs that come with each honestly derived division believing that theirs is truth and the rest are blasphemy.

 

You have no idea of the depths I endured at one time in my life
But I came through it over a period of time. . I'm now 84 and have no fear of death. It is a natural part of life. My only regret is that I will not see further advances of science and knowledge of the Universe which is being revealed all the time.
Religion stemmed from a lack of knowledge of the world. You can see this if you look back at ancient societies. You can see the various gods of nature they worshipped. Many - 20 - of the first Egyptian gods were therianthropes. Many Hindu gods were/are 'contacts' with 'extraterrestials'.
We now have enough knowledge to understand many things our ancestors did not and with more to come.

 

I have no fear of death either but no regrets. This life is an educational process and this is the first step. Have a nice day.

 

Everybody is.
That is why everyone makes god in their own image.

 

A 1st step that's been going on for 13.5B years. It's called life.

 

So you recognized this spirit as being separate from you and this causes you to speculate that there is a hierarchy with a minimum of at least two tiers in which this spirit has authority over you and perhaps other other spirits. So in your being transported to another location or being made unaware of your surroundings, the only thing you could sense was this other being and its authority over you? Were there any other sensations that you had? How did you feel?

 

Who says you get to speak for everyone? Unless in your mind you are the Creator.

 

I speak for no one. Everyone speaks for themselves and makes their own god in their own image.
Just as you have done.

 

Strange that Jesus never mentioned germ theory either. Did he talk about the New World? Australia? Why decide to go through all that grief just to die a horrible death? Just have GOD talk to the world with his super powers. The whole thing is a fantasy of ignorant people long ago.

 

There is no reference to Jesus in the OT. I have not seen him mentioned anywhere. Christianity has simply 'inferred' certain scriptures refer to him. The Jewish scriptures refer to the Jews. Can you show me just on scripture that uses the name Jesus.

Jesus was just a Jewish preacher. The nativity stories are cobbled together
by Matthew and Luke and can, with study, be shown to be against Laws of the time and commonsense.
Luke says that the whole world was to be 'censused'. The Roman world was most of Europe, Asia Minor, North Africa, Egypt and the Middle East. And the Romans had the ability to take a census of millions and keep records?
Luke says Joseph had to go to his 'heritage home' as a descendant of David. Why? That would mean millions of people following suit to their 'heritage home'.
Roman censuses were for tax on property. Josephs was in Nazareth not Bethlehem Ephratah. David (if he ever existed) had been dead 900 years. He had 20 sons we are told. 20 sons of say 5 family members (most families were larger as a status symbol).
A Bible generation is 30 years - Jewish prime of life. (40 years is interpreted as 'a long time'). Over 900 years that becomes an enormous number. And remember many of these would have dispersed during 3 invasions of Palestine, civil wars, the chaos and civil wars of the Hasmonean Kingdom during that period. Do yo really believe that Davids descendants in North Africa, Europe etc, etc, would have travelled for days and weeks just for a census - or had any property there to be taxed. Joseph had no property there. And how, do you suppose he could he maintain property 90 miles - 4 days journey - away.
Mary was exempt from travel under Jewish custom and the Romans didn't require it. No pregnant Jewish woman or weaning mother was expected to leave home until the child was weaned. See Samuels birth and Hannahs actions. In any case would a 9 month pregnant young woman want to spend 4 days travelling, cooking, ablutions and sleeping by the roadside at night in a land that was not as peaceful as made out. No raodside cafes, hotels, toilets.
A notice found by archaology in Egypt records a later Roman census in the province which informs inhabitants to stay at home for the census.

Matthew uses Hosea 11:1 to send Joseph and family to Egypt. But this doesn't mention Jesus. If you add Jesus then the rest of the chapter applies. On top of that Matthews reference implies he believed that Israel were in Egypt and the Exodus. Unfortunately in his genealogy - Joseph to Abraham - he goes straight from Moses to Jacobs grandson. That means either he leaves out about 10 x 30 year generations OR he doesn't believe Israel were ever in Egypt. It also questions Josephs relationship to Abraham. Odd don't you think?
And when Matthew refers to Bethlehem Ephratah is he actually talking about the town or the family Ephratah of Bethlehem found in the Bible. One Hebrew translation refer to 'clan' - family - of Ephratah of Bethlehem.

The real safety for the family, if the story were true, would have been in Syria. The family would have been safer there - just 20 miles from Nazareth - than travelling all through the dangerous Negev desert, where people travelled in groups, to Egypt. Herod would not have dared sending his men into Syria. The Governor of Syria would have sent him packing. And he would not have handed them over. Herod was not exactly liked by anyone - even Rome. Rome did not like provinces fighting amongst themselves. When the King of Damascus in Pauls time set out to harrass Antipas for divorcing the kings daughter - he felt slighted - and set out to hurt Antipas. Rome sent an army to 'deter' him and he went home.
Other points I leave out save this.
Matthew sends Joseph and family to Egypt for about 2 years. Luke sends them home after the birth and Jewish ritual had been performed. That's about 40 days. Presentation and purchase of the firstborn in the Temple and Mary's ritual cleansing. There they remain until Jesus is grown up.
My belief is that Jesus was a Jewish preacher, born in Bethlehem in Zebulon just 5 miles from Nazareth. He grew up - learnt the Tanakh at school - yes the had schools usually associated with the local synagogue where they learnt to read and write from the age of 5 through to adulthood and was intelligent enough to discus with the Jewish leaders who were impressed. there was fi]urther education for the intelligent undewr a Rabbi. But that's another story.

 

Not going to even take the time to refute your narrative. Just wondered why an 84 year old man who knows his truth puts so much time in this. If you have grandkids, they'll look at your grave and say "there he is". Mine will look at my grave and say, "I know where he went and we'll see him again!"

 

Oh but you said

as if you know!

 

It filled me with charity and peace. I didn't get a sense of authority, but of divinity. I recognized and remembered his spirit. When I say transported, I mean the spirit was so strong, that it seemed like I was somewhere else in spirit. But the whole while I was in my living room.

 

You proclaim you are right. I proclaim you are wrong. And the fact you are not going to refute my post surely says something. Jesus is not mentioned in the OT and my post stands your scrutiny. All so called references in the OT are Christian interpretation and stands refutation


Mine will look at my grave and say, "I know where he went and we'll see him again!"
Christian indoctrination again. If the Bible had not been written, where would you be. No heaven - no hell. Just birth, life and death. A book of some doubtful stories taken as literal. Should we take C.S.Lewis's Trilogy - Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra and That Hideous Strength litlerally.

 

C.S. Lewis.....the same man who said, "Jesus Christ, he as either a liar, a lunatic, or He is Lord."

 

Was there anyone else in the living room with you?