Is Papandreou Right to Let the Greeks Decide?!

I thought his point was it is not a representative of anyone. So why does it and other unelected moneygrabbers have power to hold the world to ransom? Would it have that kind of power without the US markets..?

They must save us from ourselves (and common sense).

 

Yeah, Not gonna happen.

 

HOW IS LOANING SOMEONE MONEY THEFT?

What are you trying to say? That the Greek People have a right to all the socialism they want, but if their economy is incapable of supporting it then the rest of Europe must pay otherwise the Greek People are getting robbed???

 

Loaning money at exorbitant rates... Its called usury....and is illegal in the UK until that parasite Thatcher came to power in ENGLAND...the Scots had more sense that to vote in any tory!

As for the financial difficulties they the Greeks now find themselves...perhaps if the business fraternity paid there just dues the problems wouldn't exist!
Perhaps if Goldman Sachs audited the Financial position of the Greeks properly and not cooked the books the problem wouldn't exist!

But it does....so the Greeks should tell the banking parasite's to bugger off!

Pure Capitalism!!!!

And a touch of their own medicine!

Regards
Highlander

 

The Greek rich don't pay taxes and the ordinary people (mostly) do. The banks and stock-exchange gamblers got the world into debt, chum, not the Greeks.

 

Well yes, everyone is blaming the Greeks but let's not forget, they aren't the only ones, there's Iceland, Ireland, Spain, Italy everyone is in a mess because they deregulated the financial services and let a bunch of crooks rip us off.

As for the referendum, that is called democracy, democracy is supposed to be a good thing isn't it?

So let's take a look at what is happening in Greece, 372 foreign "advisers" move in to effectively take control of the Greek government. Not a penny can be spent without their say so. Greece effectively hands over sovereignty of their country to foreigners, unelected foreigners, the majority of which are bankers and managers of financial institutions, the same crooks who got us into this mess in the first place.

 

What people try to hide is that in fact there is no real greek problem our loans are so small for the world powers and EU that its not really big deal.
But soon or later you will face the real problem when debts like Italy and Spain come to surface.
One great problem is that EU does not act as EUROPE but we look germans looking for germans, french for french and Greeks for Greeks. There is no common financial policy and there is no understanding.
What happens to Greece now will come to whole europe later no matter what you believe because the real problem is ethical and even philosophical.

As for the Greeks, we work hard and we take very few, the myth that we just look at the sun having fan and spending money is perhaps in the minds of some half-depressing germans who see Greece only in our tourist advertisements...well at least i see our advertisements are doing their job....
The reality is that we work hard, we get not a lot and most of all the prices of the goods ARE VERY VERY HIGH. The money was stollen cause of the system, our political system who betray us for having numerous scandalous secret pacts with companies such as siemens and etc. You cannot say anything against everyday greek because he was just a stupid believing that his politicians cared for his country and their people.

 

The truth is that your elected representatives lied to you and the rest of the world about the state of your Finances.

Guess what? That's not the responsibility of France.

And also it's fairly well established that Greeks think it is perfectly morally acceptable to evade income tax and VAT.

Guess what? It's not the responsibility of anyone else to pay your bills.

If you want to reject the Euro deal then fine. Leave the Euro.

The fault of the issue here is that the Euro never ensured that profligate spendthrift countries like Greece ever had to conform to properly audited guidelines restricting deficit size as a proportion of GDP. As a result Germans profited by selling things to Greece which it couldn't afford from which both countries benefited.

Time to pay the bill. As with this Euroe deal everyone should pay. If someone doesn't want to pay then they should be cut loose.

Of course communists and anarchists disagree. Who cares? We know where that gets us. We have been to post communist countries and seen the squalor.

Greece, Ireland, Italy...anyone else who wants to avoid paying the bill that they have run up... your welcome to the isolation and the poverty that will bring, if that's what you choose over paying your obligations.

 

What exorbitant rates would they be then?

That is the original loans to Greece, based on lies on the application form.

And how exorbitant are the rates after half the debt is written off after the lying and cheating has been discovered.

I don't expect you'll answer the question but please don't answer with references to oliver cromwell or Winston Churchill in the stream of consciousness drivelly way that you usually do.

 

Who ever asked any of us about 'our' bills then? I have never been in debt myself, but the tories plan to penalize me and mine just as if I had. Those who gambled with other people's money and lives should pay, surely? I mean to others, not themselves twice as much!

 

I cant see how greeks benefited from this lol we could also buy from french industries or english or american it its not difficult to find a tft tv in this world that its not german lol.
that was ofcourse one of the reasons germany didint speak because they were having high sailings outside their country

as for the paying the bills greece is doing already that by cutting of 40% of their salaries
but the reality is that within or outside the euro we may finally have the same ending as the former communist countries thats the big picture you cant see....

 

You get asked every time you vote. Isn't that clear? As to blaming things on the bankers, that is economic illiteracy. Most financial services is required to ensure that the trillions of transactions a day that make the world go round can effectively take place. This system got out of hand due to poor regulation and introduced a cyclical crisis. All that did was expose the massive overspending of governments in relation to their income which had been masked by the expansion of the economy on the back of a tiny minority of financial transactions which had been over speculative. Global economies were mismanaged because certain "ponzi" schemes (to use a crude shorthand) had been permitted and these had masked government profligacy.

You benefited from that profligacy. Unless you are a hermit, living up a mountain. Britain has an over extended and inefficient public sector as a result. Personally, I think that Labour's (slower) recovery plan is better than that of the Conservatives, but a recovery plan there must be and it is an opportunity to cut the excess out of public expenditure that will result in a more efficient economy. The problem with the UK economy is a long term lack of investment in manufacturing, biotechnology and other forms of innovation. The UK is overdependent on Financial Services. But a UK public that wants to drive bankers into the sea is nothing more than a herd of lemmings - egged on by populist demagogues - who will follow them there. Massive wealth is brought to the UK by "bankers", even disregarding the 50% income tax that they pay to the exchequer.

Greece is just a worse case. In joining the Euro they became part of a German superstate. They benefited from this in the same way East Germans did after reunification. At the same time their provincial government (ie the Greek government) decided to allow the Greek culture of tax evasion to continue, along with excess spending and a bureaucratic civil service. the government then decided to LIE about the deficit as their mismanagement was so bad that even the effete and useless bureaucrats in Brussels may have noticed a problem if the truth had been out.

This is the responsibility of the Greek people (you see, as a democrat, I believe that people are responsible for their own destiny and their own governments). But like spoiled children they want to stay as part of the German superstae and pay NO price for the fraud and mismanagement of the government that THEY elected. They think the world owes them a living. I say: stick it right up 'em. Take the very generous deal that was offered or accept your place as a third rate nation, outside the EU, offering package holdiays to British and Western tourists on your very nice islands.

 

Absolutely not. Total codswallop.

 

So you want what instead of representative democracy, endless plebiscites? I know let's negotiate a deal over European debt and then have every nation hold a referendum on it. Then when things change lets do the same things again six weeks later...

Theta total codswallop only I explained why a little. Sorry if your short attention span couldn't quite take it in.

Go "soundbyte" with someone else buddy.

 

Go back to the Office and get some new lines, kid, after someone teaches you to pay attention instead of pouring out ill-considered words. You are tedious.

 

Yes abuse is all you have left Iolo. You can't answer an argument so you resort to ad hominem attack. Lies, abuse, slander... all the mark if a desperate man who has lost the argument.

I must say with you you crumbled at the first hurdle.

 

I am still saying that the system is the problem and not greece. From the 90 billions we took we gave already 500 billion and we have to pay 360 billions more
these 50% the bankers are going to "lose" is from the 360 billion we have to pay cause of interests while we have already paid 500 billions. the only truth is a system that terrorizes the nations and the states.

 

Yes. The people must be decide. Democracy. Or you have fear to democracy?

 

You see the problem is that this just sound like bollocks. Interest rates on soveriegn debt are low. Greece didn't borrow money from the loan shark at the end of the street. If you put the case you are trying to attack in a more even handed way, your posts may have some credibility. But "the hurdy gurdy man is coming woooaaaaar" isn't a persuasive style.

 

I see you able to use my word describing your "persuasion"! perhaps if you looked deeper into that "bias" and "parochial" benefits...you might see exactly what's happening by your aristocracy!
Another nation succumbs to vested interests and financial piracy!!

Regards
Highlander

 

The Greeks have a new prime minister and the EU has a former European Bank Vice President in power.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15671354

 

Aye and I said before he was elected .....because he was a safe pair of hands to implement extremist IMF ECB policies!

They all (*)(*)(*)(*) in the same pot!

http://www.voltairenet.org/Greece-Christine-Lagarde-is-back

But the offer of a referendum to the Greek nation was a guilty concious for selling out his own nation!

Judas......a Greek Judas!

http://www.voltairenet.org/Greek-P-M-Zionism-and-the-IMF-s

Regards
Highlander

 

Let the Greeks get of their... and start working for a living. The days of the rest of Europe carrying their heavy welfare load are well and truly gone.

Pass the ouzo!

 

I was in Athens last week, i talked with friends i saw the hopeless youngs, people in panic, they don't want to pay the bill of the unresponsibility of the politicians and the global crises.

The main criticism to Greeks is to be lazy,'' While Germans are working they are doing siesta why Germans have to pay for them''. I didn't met any Greek making Siesta yet, i am working in a multinational company and working with all Europeans and Greeks are working much more better then Frenches for example. My colleauge in Greece working untill 7:30 at night with me which a German do it very difficultly. They have a problem for public workers. That's right and Greeks are generally relaxed people and living the life slow and they like luxiry and quality, but the biggest mistake of Greeks to fall in a fake welfare, to go on with the mentality of '' We are EU citizen nothing happens''. With this mentality country transformed and stayed as a sales office.

On the other hand in my country in Turkey we work much more than European countries we have very few freedays per year that you can't compare with Europeans, we have big manufacturing industry already we manufacture everything inside country, still GDP per capita in Turkey is far lower than these countries. This means to working to much is not the only reason what Greece faced ....


Greece is very alone now, but if Greece fall down others will follow Greece.
If a man is sick because of smoking and doctors couldn't recognised it doctors are as mistaken as the man. Europe should do something for Greece before, now how they shift for Greece like crazy to guarantee their money they should spend this shift before.

 

You obviously never been in Greece and your opinion is based solely on some 'reports' and comments we read in a newspapers or see on a TV!
As a person who has been in Greece many times, I can honestly say that Greeks are hard working, family oriented and very reliable/responsible people.
I guess the only misfortune they have is that they are not 'oh, so important' to be massively bailed out as seen in the past when it comes to so called 'world leading countries'!