Israel vs. Palestine

How can you see where it is going(sic), if by your own admission you did not read past the first lines?

And where was it going, do you mind my asking?

I actually took the time to write you a good message, said from the heart.

The fact that you dismiss what I wrote to you, along with my loss and that of my family, proves you are only interested in your own alleged suffering.

On that basis, I have nothing more to say to you.

 

Well, you have been missing ALL the fun, Goomba.

Because according to our medically named resident Zionist (you know the one, swears he is not Jewish, but knows all there is to know about what is best for Jews), he was kind enough to redefine terrorism for us all.

For example, he is on record as stating that he doesn't regard the IRA or their actions to be those of terrorists. (when active)

He goes on to admit that he did not regard Stern Gang and Irgun as terrorists, or their actions.

Why not?

Allegedly, they made phone calls before detonating their bombs.

And on that basis, it is okay.

The fact that I showed him this notion is entirely false, along with his notion that the IRA, Stern Gang and Irgun didn't target civilians, is apparently to be ignored. Nope, the member will not tell us what country he is in, he knows more about the IRA than me, a man who lives an hour over the water from Ireland.

So there you have it.

According to a non Jew Zionist, it is okay to set off bombs, so long as you give a wee call first.

Jack

 

think what ever you want. you can lock this discussion, i only wish that you go threw half what we are going threw here, they suffer, but like i said they brough it on themsleves, they cant attack and expect us to sit quite and do nothing, even you have to agree with that.
someone here said that we need to sit and wait for our god to save us, and not our army, when the palestinians will wait for their god we will wait for ours.

 

Anyone that has read more than two of my replies knows that I support Israel with a rabid intensity. Israel’s rights to the land known as Israel today goes back to primitive times, more than 5000 years. Archeological evidence confirms an unbroken ‘Jewish’ presence for over three millennia. Then in 1948 as prophesied in the bible Israel became a sovereign nation/state and is recognized by the UN. The so called Palestinians are a modern creation that have no historical homeland nor nation nor significance. I do empathize with the SCPalestinians because they have used by those that have a vested interest in destroying or weakening Israel. The SCPalestinians and much of the world have been fully brainwashed by propaganda, the best propaganda campaign since the American public was brainwashed by communist operatives during the Vietnam war. I have some background in brainwashing aka coercive persuasion because my MOS in the army was PsyOps related. My hope is that those that are influenced by propaganda will realize their predicament and began supporting Jewish people the real owners/caretakers of Israel.

reva

 

Thanks, but we can do without hasbara lies and pro-Israeli propaganda. We've heard it all before, and it's all been debunked. That's why you people are so desperate to defend the indefensible. Israel has become a pariah and a verminous leech. Netanyahu is on public record, smugly smirking at his 'ally', America', and proclaiming what a soft-touch and a pushover they are-while at the same time holding out his sanctimonious hands for billions more American taxpayers' dollars. I don't want an 'ally' like that.

 

Congratulations; your post is a classic example of how brainwashing has worked on you.

 

One of the problems is that it's too late to go back and prevent Israel from "happening". Like it or not it exists now and we have to make the best of the situation even if we don't like how things turned out - peace must be established by both sides no matter what.

 

If that's the case, why don't you take yourself there?

 

Here's your real problem - Jewish supremacists in Israel and the US, which are now really one and the same thing, they don't want 'peace'. Unless by 'peace' you mean - the ongoing and illegal land grab of people's homes and land, and the on going and illegal imprisoning of children.

They do want that.

Is that what 'peace' means to you? No. Not me either.

But in the world of the Zionist, virtues are turned upside down.

Jack

 

illegal grab? no, but keep thinking that, with that i can deal.
illegal imprison of children? when did we imprison children? when did we imprison anyone other then terorists and war criminals? our soldier Gilad Shalit was in captivity for 5 years, when he came back home he weighted less then a 100 pound! he didnt see hes family once, he had a untaken care of wound in hes hand and forced to go threw sergery when he came back home.

now palestinians terorists:
Food- lots of it, they all weight atleast 200 pound, we give them condition
education, the prosners get the option to learn and get their First Degree.
their family gets 1200 israeli sheqles every month, from my taxes.
the prosners get to wee their families once in 6 month.
they have a TV with the local Al-Jazira channel.

we made two peace agreements that both of them including us giving up on something that is very important for peace.
The Egypt Peace Agreement- in 1967, 6 days war we took Sinai where the egyption army had many soldiers and weapons, we drove the egyption army out of there, and put it under our military control to ensure egyprion forces arnt invading israel.
in 1979 Anuar Saadat came to visit in israel, during the visit was the signing of the peace agreement that said israeli is giving back Sinai that was twice as large from the original israel in exchange for peace in the egyption side.

our next peace agreement was with Jordan.
in that peace agreement we gave the Jordans:
Israeli sciaientists
Clean water from the Kineret, that is the most important water reservoir in israel.

in exchange we got peave in the Jordanian side.

in 2004 we gave the paletinians Gaza as an avt of good wwal, hoping to go from that to a real peace agreement, two month after the palestinians recieved Gaza, they attacked west israel with Kasam missiles.

so tell me, who do you wants peace more?
the people who attacked us after were giving what they asked for or the people who gace up much over the years in order to get peace?

 

LOL.

Are you sure you are an 'Israeli'?

You illegally imprison and often torture kids.

You people disgust me, when one engages in, or makes excuses for crap like that, they are not human, you are degenerates.

Several countries, led by Britain, are putting increased pressure on Israel over the treatment of Palestinian children opposing the manner of their arrest and interrogation and also the conditions in which they are kept in custody.

MP Sandra Osborne, part of a British delegation that recently visited an Israeli military court which is attached to the prison in the West Bank, said of the visit: "For the children we saw that morning, the only thing that mattered was to see their families, perhaps for the first time in months ... A whole generation is criminalised through this process."

Human rights group Defence for Children International estimates that about a third of children who pass through the system have either been shown or signed documentation in Hebrew - a language they cannot understand.


[video=youtube;dqCcS37LJrA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqCcS37LJrA[/video]

 

it they are old enough to throw rocks and hiting our soldiers trying to kill them, they are old enough to go to prison, they should pay for their crimes, we never took and inocent man to prison.
we dont tortue them, only the terorists who are in high rank of the Hamas org. or Al-Kaida, not regular man who were improsoned for their crimes againts israel.
we give them very good comdition in the prison, unlike what our captibity soldiers got in captivity, Gilad Shalit was in a hall in the ground for 5 years! the people in our prisoners have a windows, with medal ofcurse, but they get sunshine that is very important for human grow.

i sad before, here is everything they get in prison:

you choose to ignore their bad things and blame us for everything, criminals go to prison, they should suffer the consequences for their actions, their old enough to attack, they are old enough to go to prison.
Britain in one of the most israeli hater country in the world, it is not a fair compersion to use what they sad, out prime minister and secretery of defence had an arest charge in the set foot in britain.
Gilad Shalit was a kid, a 19 year old kid, do they care??
no! neighter should we, we imprison terorists and criminals.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nse_Forces_-_Gaza_Kindergarten_Graduation.jpg
Indoctrination


Gaza Kindergarten Graduation
According to emeritus professor of psychiatry at the University of Virginia School of Medicine Vamik Volkan,

Most suicide bombers in the Middle East are chosen as teenagers, “educated,” and then sent off to perform their duty when they are in their late teens or early to mid-twenties. The "education" is most effective when religious elements of the large-group identity are provided as solutions for the personal sense of helplessness, shame, and humiliation. Replacing borrowed elements sanctioned by God for one’s internal world makes that person omnipotent and supports the individual’s narcissism. I found that there was little difficulty in finding young men interested in becoming suicide bombers in Gaza and the West Bank. Repeated actual and expected events humiliate youngsters and interfere with their adaptive identifications with their parents because their parents are humiliated as well.[8]

Volkan gives the examples of beatings, torture, or the loss of a parent as typical humiliating events which might make a young person more susceptible to recruitment for suicide terrorism.

Once recruited, children and teenagers are encouraged to cut off contact with "real world" affairs and subjected to an intense program of memorization and repetition of the Qur'an based more on sound than on meaning.

The typical technique of creating Middle Eastern Muslim suicide bombers includes two basic steps: first, the "teachers" find young people whose personal identity is already disturbed and who are seeking an outer "element" to internalize so they can stabilize their internal world. Second, they develop a "teaching method" that "forces" the large-group identity, ethnic and/or religious, into the "cracks" of the person’s damaged or subjugated individual identity. Once people become candidates to be suicide bombers, the routine rules and regulations, so to speak, or individual psychology does not fully apply to their patterns of thought and action.[8]

Anne Speckhard, adjunct associate Professor of Psychiatry, Georgetown University Medical Center and Professor of Psychology, Vesalius College, Free University of Brussels, writes:

In the Palestinian territories, there currently exists a "cult of martyrdom". From a very young age children are socialized into a group consciousness that honors "martyrs", including human bombers who have given their lives for the fight against what is perceived by Palestinians to be the unjust occupation of their lands. Young children are told stories of "martyrs". Many young people wear necklaces venerating particular "martyrs", posters decorate the walls of towns and rock and music videos extol the virtues of bombers. Each act of suicide terrorism is also marked by a last testament and video, which are prepared ahead of time by the "martyr" who can later reach great popularity when the video is played on television. Despite the very deep and real grief of the family and friends left behind, the funerals of “martyrs” are generally accompanied with much fanfare by community and sponsoring organization. Often, the effect of this is confusing to outsiders as it can disrupt, delay and even circumvent the family’s ability to focus on its grief over the loss of a family member and it may even support the family in claiming to outsiders joy over the loss of its loved one. This "cult of martyrdom", which has a strong underpinning in longstanding cultural roots (the honoring of martyrs), appears to have developed principally over the last decade, as the first act of suicide terrorism occurred in Israel only twelve years ago."[9]

Umm Nidal, who sent three of her sons, including one 17 year old, on suicide attacks, said "I love my children, but as Muslims we pressure ourselves and sacrifice our emotions for the interest of the homeland. The greater interest takes precedence to the personal interest." She was later elected to the Palestinian legislature on the Hamas ticket.[10] According to Human Rights Watch,

Major Palestinian armed groups, including Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Islamic Jihad, and Hamas, have publicly disavowed the use of children in military operations, but those stated policies have not always been implemented. Some leaders, including representatives of Islamic Jihad and Hamas, have said that they consider children of 16 to be adults. International law defines a child as any person under the age of eighteen. [...] Israeli government policy in the Occupied Territories defines Palestinians under the age of 16 as minors while Israeli children in the same territories are considered minors until they reach the age of 18.[11]

[edit] History
[edit] Incidents from September 2000 through 2003
According to the Israel Defense Forces:

Since the beginning of violence in the Al-Aqsa Intifada in 2000, 29 suicide attacks have been carried out by youth under the age of 18.
Since May 2001, 22 shootings attacks and attacks using explosive devices were carried out by youth under the age of 18.
Since the beginning of 2001, more than 40 youths under the age of 18 were involved in attempted suicide bombings that were thwarted (of them, three during 2004).
On 29 March 2002, Ayat al-Akhras, an 18-year-old girl from the Deheishe Refugee Camp near Bethlehem, detonated explosives strapped around her waist in a supermarket in Jerusalem, killing herself, a 17 year-old Israeli girl named Rachel Levy, and a 55 year-old security guard named Haim Smadar.

 

"Baby Suicide Bomber" photo
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Flickr_-_Israel_Defense_Forces_-_


Picture of the "Baby Suicide Bomber"
The 'Baby Suicide Bomber' refers to a photo that received media attention in 2002.[12]

During a search done on 29 June 2002, of a house belonging to a Hamas militant in the town of Hebron,[12] The IDF claims to have found a photo showing a 18-month infant standing wide-eyed in a baby suit, Red wires strapped to his waist, with a pretend explosives belt, and across his head tied a red bandana of Hamas.

According to BBC News the baby's grandfather, Redwan Abu Turki, said that the dressing of the infant baby as a bomber was from a rally at the university and that "the picture was taken just for the fun of it".[13]

Israeli newspapers published the photograph under headlines such as "Terror in Diapers" [14] and "Born to Kill".[15] Israeli Prime Minister Sharon's advisor Dore Gold said the picture "symbolizes the hatred and incitement which the Palestinian leadership has been feeding a whole generation of Palestinian youths." [16] At the U.S. State Department, spokesman Richard Boucher stated that he considered the image as "a highly objectionable display." [17]

While Palestinian officials dismissed it as a propaganda trick, Haaretz reported that a Palestinian journalist in the Hebron area said she did not believe the picture was a fake and expressed surprise at the furor it caused in Israel [18]

"I can find you many, many photos like this," she said. "Many kids imitate adults and wear toy masks and guns, especially during marches. It's not strange at all". She added that she had seen children as young as the one in the photograph wearing similar costumes: "In our society it happens a lot. It's a kind of phenomenon."
Other photos of children dressed up as terrorists have been published since then.[19]

[edit] Incidents in 2004
On March 24, 2004, one week after capturing a bomb in the bag of 12-year-old Abdullah Quran, Hussam Abdo, a 16-year-old Palestinian (who initially claimed he was 14), was captured in a checkpoint near Nablus wearing an explosive belt. The young boy was paid by the Tanzim militia to detonate himself at the checkpoint. IDF soldiers manning the checkpoint were suspicious of him and told him to stay away from people. Later, an EOD team arrived and by using a police-sapper robot, removed the explosive belt from him.[20][21] Hussam explained that he was offered 100 NIS and sex with virgins if he would perform the task. He said his friends mocked him in class.[22]

On May 29, 2004, The New York Times reported Israeli allegations that the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades were using children to recruit classmates as suicide bombers.

One child, Nasser Awartani, 15, of Nablus allegedly recruited four of his classmates, one of whom was claimed by the Shabak report on Awartani to be Hussam Abdo.

On June 16, 2004, two girls - aged 14 and 15 were arrested by the IDF for allegedly plotting a suicide bombing. According to an IDF statement, the two children were recruited by activists from Tanzim (Fatah's armed wing), guided by Hezbollah.[23]

On July 3, the Israeli Security Forces thwarted a suicide bombing which it claimed was to have been carried out by 16-year-old Muataz Takhsin Karini. Karini and two of his operators were arrested, while a 12 kg explosive belt was detonated safely by an Israeli EOD crew.[24] On June 5, IDF forces detonated two explosive belts concealed in schoolbags. On July 14, the Shin Bet arrested in Kfar Maskha a suicide bomber. The bomber was identified as 17-year-old Ahmed Bushkar from Nablus.[25]

On September 23, 2004, a day before Yom Kippur, the Shin Bet and the Israel Police announced their capture of a 15-year-old suicide bomber and a 7 kg explosive belt in the village of Dir-Hana in the Western Galilee. The 15-year-old was part of joint terrorist cell of Tanzim and Palestinian Islamic Jihad from Yamon village near Jenin. The four were Palestinians who worked illegally in Israel. The 15-year-old was allegedly paid 1000 shekels in order to blow himself up in Afula.[26][27]

According to a Shabak report published on September 26, 2004, about 292 Palestinian children have been involved in terrorism.[28]

On September 27, 2004, a 15-year-old suspected suicide bomber was arrested in Nablus.[29] On October 28, Ayub Maaruf, a 16-year-old Fatah suicide bomber, was arrested near Nablus along with his operator.[30]

On November 1, 16-year-old Aamer Alfar blew himself in Tel Aviv's Carmel Market, killing 3 Israelis in a suicide bombing that was claimed by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Alfar's mother and father condemned what they saw as the exploitation of their son:

"God will curse those who recruited Amar. I had heard the stories about recruiting children in Nablus but I didn't think they were true... Yes, it is difficult here for everyone because of the occupation, and life in Nablus is intolerable, but children should not be exploited in this way."[citation needed]

On November 4, a 15-year-old suicide bomber was arrested in Nablus

 

@JewinIsrael

Yeah, sure, everything is fine, all we need to is listen to you, and your sick little state, built by atheist Zionists.

 

Your personal opinion is not interesting and not accurate. You posted no factual independently supported information to validate your personal opinion. Brainwashing causes an individual to not know fact from fiction. Most pal supporters would claim that the Palestinians once had a nation, they don't and never have, the nation of Palestine does not exist. Israel does exist by UN charter and by military conquest. That is just one of many facts I have posted so many times I know the web address of the validating source by memory. Here is another;

The True History of Palestine: The Nation-State Fallacy
www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/13-468.aspx
5 posts - 4 authors - Aug 24, 2005
Palestinian Nation? seems to lack one simple fact: Palestine has no past and was never a sovereign nation. The closest thing the Palestinian ...

reva


to whom it may concern;

I am not surprised that when confronted with the facts most liars rarely admit that they were not telling the truth. They are so full of hate and spite that a lie is more comforting than the truth. Most Palestinian apologists on this site are locked into such a habit. They know that Palestine was and never has been a nation but are afraid to admit it! Trust me coming clean would improve the Pal Apologists credibility far more than anything else they could do. For now I usually ignore the lies and mis-truths they post in a desperate attempt to vindicate an fictional people and the fabricated nation of Palestine.

reva

 

I don't care if Israel was built by Anton LaVey, ha ha! She emerged out of the mists of time and bible prophesy in one day just as scripture predicted. Israel has fulfilled many prophesies and has rebuffed attack from overwhelming forces of the nurmrous Arab states, again as per prophesy she kicked butt, and retained nation status. Israel is a stabilizing influence in the middle east unlike many of her Arab neighbors. Without Israel the Arabs would be at war continually. Lastly I as a Christian Zionist am exceedingly happy with the state of affairs as it is today. My one wish is that the so called Palestinians would be given a homeland by her rich Arab neighbors. (in land and euros). That will not happen. What will happen is that the Arabs will cause Armageddon or something similar, also as per scripture (although there will be other international players in the final attack on Israel).

reva

 

You tell us you're big on facts, and you then go on to emphasise your confidence in 'prophecies' (guesses), from a book of myths, superstition and absurd fairytales? Now tell us you want to be taken seriously...
http://godlesshaven.com/articles/bible-prophecy_pg1.html
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/100-challenge.html

 

Oh now you are attempting to divert attention away from supporting your claims eh? Ha ha. Lets clear up first things first. First I asked you to show just one confirmation, i.e. specifically proof of a Palestinian state anytime in history which might support your allegations, and to show that it is you not I that's suffering from menticide. As far as biblical prophesy goes your opinions of it is as far fetched as a real Palestinian nation existing.

reva

 

I don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about history; this is about the only defense that Zionists have. 'Oh, but Shlomo the Hairy built a shack here 3000 years ago, dropped a shekel some archaeologist found, and that proves beyond a doubt that Israel has first dibs on the land'.
What I do give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about is the rights of the Palestinians not to be thrown out of their homes any time a 'settler' takes a whim, not to have their homes bulldozed, not to have their land systematically stolen, not to have their elderly folk beaten up by thugs with baseball bats, not to have their access to water controlled and not to have to live surrounded by 40-foot high ghetto walls.
As a 'christian' I'm sure you would support that view. If not then be prepared to be labelled a hypocrite.

 

Yes, but you are clearly not a reliable or stable witness of anything, are you?

Given that the end pages of your 'Christian Zionism', finishes with all Jews being exterminated, aside from a tiny number, who denounce their Jewishishness.

That's just a hate doctrine, and no thinking Jew could possibly see it as anything other.

Moreover, your pathetic Christian Zionism has been roundly denounced, by various Christian church leaders.

Btw - your new avatar merely cheapens Jesus.

So sad.

 

You don't care about anything in the real world.

Your so called Christian Zionism is a perverse cult, and an insult to Jesus.

It is also a hate cult against Jews, since it ends with them all being exterminated, save for a tiny number that denounce their Jewishness.

Your little cult is the subject of ridicule and laughter, by Church elders, the world over.

 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

 

These so-called "church elders" then denounce the bible and are a mockery to God.

They preach from a book they laugh about.

Fraudsters!

Crooks!

Phonies!

 

Well, yes, it is possible two sets of liars can both lie.

That is true.

Good point.

But the fact remains that Christian Zionism is a cult, and the rapture is a false doctrine.

Indeed, it only came to your shores in the mid-late 1800's.

And with one purprose - to deceive.

Now, I fully understand that you do not want to understand that, I know the drill, but it is what it is.

Now, if you believe the Jesus = god, and jesus/god is watching you ALL the time, how do you feel preaching a deceitful message, knowing you are being watched.

[video=youtube;mevoP-ujVrU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mevoP-ujVrU[/video]


Jack