Part 11 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Jan 23, 2014.

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  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    More like he read a post of yours. LOL.
     
  2. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Would you be willing to die for your son or not?

    God did just that He sacrifice Himself as Jesus Christ.

    Jesus resurrected because He is God. The sacrifice was in God's willingness to become human to suffer, and die as a human. The sacrifice made all humans aware that we are all children of God and that the true Kingdom of God is not of this world.

    The sad part is that there are still people that continue to ignore and deny facts and history at the same time God understand that majority of humans do not know what they are doing even though they talk hatred or ill about God these same people will not turn or worship Satan or evil.
     
  3. Doc Dred

    Doc Dred Banned

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    it's not nonsense..it's served well for billions of people over time to improve their lives.
    and still will

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    it's not a fairy tale…the use of such shows your cards only too well.
     
  4. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    OK, walk outside and command a tree to uproot itself without any assistance. If it does as you command it to do and uproots itself just by your verbal command you may have a point. Please let us know the result.
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says that each person will die at his appointed time. Can you die for someone else if it's not your time to die?

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    A lot of various characters were resurrected in the Bible. Were they all God?
     
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Your response is absurd/incoherent, I mean how do you come up with your statement, "So God hates aborting a human egg fertilized 12 hours earlier" in response to my post you quoted me from?..what a nonsensical, absurd statement, then follow that with a question that is also absurd as well as incoherent?

    Where have I suggested that God killed little Canaanite kids on a whim? Let me bring up the entire post that these quotes I made were taken out of context from. Maybe if you had not deceptively left out the rest of my post, it would be clear to anyone that you've made an incoherent statement and asking a question that is totally out of character with God.

    God doesn't punish/kill anyone on a whim...that is just pure nonsense! He punishes because of disobedience in other words people sinning. So below is my entire post, read it thoroughly, anybody with any kind of intelligence and comprehension skills and intellectual honesty would not respond to the post nonsensically as you did...pretty dishonest I'd say you were.

    The Canaan people were evil people and because of their sins & disobedience our righteous God of the Old Testament allowed the killings (punishments) of the Canaanites and the Amalekites. God had morally sufficient reasons for ordering the destruction of these nations and so you can't call it murder. The Canaanite culture reveals its inherent moral wickedness, they were a brutal, aggressive people who engaged in bestiality, incest, and even child sacrifice. Deviant sexual acts were the norm.

    The Canaanites' sin were so repellent that God said, "Because the entire land has become defiled, I am punishing the people who live there.I will cause the land to vomit them out." ---Leviticus 18:25 NLT

    The destruction was directed more at the Canaanite religion that at the Canaanite people. The judgment was not ethnically motivated. Besides dealing with national sins, God used the conquest of Canaan to create a religious historical context in which He could eventually introduce the Messiah to the world. This Messiah would bring salvation not only to Israel, but also to Israel's enemies, including Canaan (Psalm 87:4-6; Mark 7:25-30).

    It must be noted that God gave the Canaanite people more than sufficient time to repent of their evil ways, over 400 years (Genesis 15:13-16) They were aware of God's power and could have repented but they continued their rebellion against God until the bitter end.

    God did command the Israelites to kill non-combatants such as the Canaanite women who did not fight, but this in no way means they were innocent, as their seductive behavior in Numbers 25 indicates (Numbers 25:1-3)

    What about the children? This is not an easy question to answer but we must keep several things in mind.

    First, no human person (including infants) is truly innocent. The Scripture teaches that we are all born in sin (Psalm 51:5, 58:3) This implies that all people are morally culpable for Adam's sin in some way. Infants are just as condemned from sin as adults are.

    Second, God is sovereign over all of life and can take it whenever He sees fit. God, and God alone, can give life and God alone has the right to take it whenever He so chooses.

    In fact, He ultimately takes every person's life at death. It is not our life to begin with but God's. While it is wrong for us to take a life, except in instances of capital punishment, war, and self-defense, this does not mean that it is wrong for God to do so.

    We recognize this when we accuse some person or authority who takes human life as "playing God." God is under no obligation to extend anyone's life for even another day. How and when we die is completely up to Him.

    Third, an argument could be made that it would have been cruel for God to take the lives of all the Canaanites except the infants and children. Without the protection and support of their parents, the infants and small children were likely to face death anyway due to starvation. The chances of survival for an orphan in the ancient Near East were not good.

    Finally, and most importantly, God may have provided for the salvation for those infants who would not have otherwise attained salvation if they had lived into adulthood. We must remember that the Canaanites were a barbarous and evil culture. If those infants and children had lived into adulthood, it is very likely they would have turned into something similar to their parents. If all infants and young children who die before an age of moral accountability go straight to heaven (as we believe), then those children are in a far better place than if God had allowed them to live and grow to maturity in a depraved culture.

    Surely the issue of God commanding violence in the Old Testament is difficult. However, we must remember that God sees things from an eternal perspective, and His ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9). The Apostle Paul tells us that God is both kind and severe (Romans 11:22). While it is true that God's holy character demands that sin be punished, His grace and mercy remain extended to those who are willing to repent and be saved. The Canaanite destruction provides us with a reminder that while our God is gracious and merciful, He is also a God of holiness and wrath.
     
  7. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    What sins did the Amalekite BABIES commit that deserved being slaughtered on God's orders?
     
  8. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    In other words you are not willing to die, sacrifice or work hard for your children, family or love ones. Dying or sacrificing yourself for your love ones is your time.

    Only Jesus Christ resurrected Himself. Lazarus was resurrected by Jesus Christ.
     
  9. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    They were daughters and sons of bad and wicked people that were going to be train generation after generation to continue to slaughter the Hebrews that is why their generation has to be stop and the babies soul save in Heaven.
     
  10. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    DAIRY.....exactly HOW CERTAIN....and on a scale of 1 to 20 are you CERTAIN of this statement of yours?

    Because if this is a fact.....I WILL use my capabilities to find out if what you say is true.

    HOWEVER....I MUST HAVE AN HONEST ASSESSMENT ON A SCALE OF 1 to 20....20 being the highest level of certainty....1 being the lowest level of certainty....THAN WanRen is EXACTLY what you are accusing him of being.

    I have between 12 and about 29 hours before I am GONE.....so I have the time to find out...and very few things would upset me as much as finding out that WanRen is EXACTLY as you have detailed him as actually being....and if I was to use my capabilities of finding out for certain.....I want YOU to understand something.

    As angry I would become if I found out what you accuse WanRen of being....is correct...that being someone...and Race makes no difference to me....someone who is PURPOSELY ACTING IGNORANT ALL FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING CHRISTIAN'S IN GENERAL OF LOOKING BAD AND MAKING ALL CHRISTIAN'S LOOK LIKE IGNORANT EXTREMISTS.....as angry I would become if I was to find out that was a fact.................

    ...............I WOULD BECOME JUST AS ANGRY TO FIND OUT I HAD BEEN MISLED INTO INVESTIGATING SOMEONE DUE TO A FALSE ACCUSATION BY ANOTHER MEMBER....YOU.

    So....be VERY careful now and there is NO DISHONOR if you simply tell me you are not really certain if WanRen is what you claim he is....and there is GREAT HONOR in admitting you simply are not certain.....considering what I am capable of BRINGING TO BEAR to resolve such an issue....and I admit what you have said to me makes SENSE as it is difficult to actually BELIEVE ANYONE could actually think and believe in the manner WanRen has displayed on this forum.

    So....scale of 1 to 20.....how certain are you?

    If you are not certain...even if it is a relatively high score....TELL ME....I will VERY SHORTLY be gone and if you say you are fairly certain.....UNDERSTAND....what this means if you are wrong.

    AboveAlpha
     
  11. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm not ignoring it, I just don't see how it is relevant to how we use the word today. Are you too much of a coward to use words that at one time, or still do, have another entirely different use that may be objectionable?

    It actually was always racist. The word always was used to refer to black people.

    Then why do you care what those people who were pretending to use it scientifically did? Why don't you concentrate on how it is used today? Is it being used today by modern scientists in a pejorative way? No. It is being used today to call ALL HUMANS apes. That's equality.

    I don't see how Bill Nye believing in Global Warming is relevant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    How do you know that?
     
  12. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What Bible do you read. It sure isn't the Christian Bible or the Jewish Tanakh.

    1. God punished people in the OT who had never heard of him or what he required of mankind.
    2. How were the Egyptians aware of Gods power for 400 years? If you mean Moses and the miracles this happened at the end of 400 years. It is likely that part of the time the Hyksos were in control anyway.
    3. Killing the Moabite women. So God kills thousands of women who had nothing to do with seduction, probably even against what was happening. More like an excuse for the misdeeds of the Jews.
    4. Psalm 51:5 and 58:3 do not say man is sinful from birth. Don't misinterpret Davids feelings for doctrinal purposes. That is deceitful.
    5.Taking the lives of children because you kill their parents is a 'cop out'.
    6. So God alone gives life? Does that include IVF when a doctor fertilises a woman by artificial means and the woman gives life when she was unable to before. If God wanted her to have children she surely would not have needed IVF.
    7. The issue of violence in the Tanakh is easy. Either God condemns, and has killed, humans who have never heard of him. Or, it is simply down to mans violence against man which was prevalent in the Ancient world, and even today. In the first case, is not God unfair. In the second, is not man inhuman.
    8. How and when we die is completely up to God. Thanks God. My father died slowly and in agony. My uncle too, though not so much pain. Someone I knew in constant pain, helpless and wanting to die has to sit that way until you're ready?



    Some of your postings bear no understanding of reality.
     
  13. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    I am understanding just fine. The sacrifice wasn't necessary at all, according to your own words. People who have never heard of Jesus, according to you, aren't judged because of that; they are judged due to their actions. Jesus, according to your logic, was an entirely unnecessary sacrifice because God could simply judge everybody WITHOUT sacrificing his son.

    But he didn't have to present any sort of sacrifice. He's the most powerful being in all the verse and could have simply made a covenant without a sacrifice. In fact, according to you, the new covenant is actually a hindrance to people entering heaven. God made it HARDER to enter heaven.
     
  14. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Since....this is possibly the last day I will be posting....either for awhile or possibly forever as such a issue is possible....I want to ask you.....what do you think the level of possibility is as far as what Dairy suggested concerning WanRen being a plant?

    Now....here is the thing....if a WanRen IS a plant....then he is one of the BEST I have ever seen as I can usually smell out such a thing....but I disregarded any such thoughts of WanRen being a plant as I felt that it was almost IMPOSSIBLE for anyone intelligent enough to understand all the complexities of being able to both irritate enough people and at the same time act ignorant enough for even a person of my experience to think....there is NO WAY a person smart enough to be a plant has the ability to act at such a level of ignorance.

    And if WANREN is a PLANT.....well WanRen....PM me because there is a JOB waiting for you and I can assure you I will DOUBLE whatever you can PROVE to be being paid now.

    I can very much USE someone of your caliber and capabilities....IF....you are indeed a PLANT....as if you can put one over on ME....you won't even have to go through any interviewing process....I will vouch for you myself and my word holds a lot of weight and an ENORMOUS amount of influence.

    Still....I cannot understand why if you are a Plant why someone of your ability would be working on a JOB on a Political Forum and since it makes NO SENSE for any Group to have hired you to check up on me as any attempted penetration into my set up would not garnish anyone any intel. and only cause them to be FLAGGED and tracked and any group capable of hiring such a person of your capability would KNOW THIS.

    So....either you are IN FACT simply a PERSON WHO IS JUST SO FAR GONE.....that you are in fact acting in a manner so illogical that no member here including myself can figure you out....OR.....some LOW LEVEL GROUP has hired someone that is an UNKNOWN to the various large scale Intel Groups and you are just one of those ONCE IN A DECADE OUT OF NOWHERE TALENTS that such a low level group does not know what they have.........OR.....and this would make no sense.....someone who I sometimes for for would seem to be upset perhaps with something I might have said here.....although I cannot for the life of me understand what that could be as anytime I might say....ANYTHING....that some may not want talked about....and understand I HAVE NEVER POSTED ANYTHING CLASSIFIED.....but I have posted leaked information which HE WHOLE DAMN PLANET already has been made aware of.


    Sooooo.....WanRen.....either you are the complete Ultra-Religious Fanatic that I have taken you for.....OR.....you are someone of INCREDIBLE CAPABILITY AND IF THAT IS THE CASE....I cannot....actually....WE CANNOT allow someone of such talent and capability to roam UNTRAINED....on such an Internet Forum.....because if you are a PLANT.....you are TOO GOOD to have made the mistake of allowing yourself to be considered to be a PLANT.

    And your specific mistake was....ACTING AND POSTING TOO IGNORANT.....as I myself have NEVER experienced even the most hardcore Forum Fanatics display even CLOSE to the level of refusing to acknowledge basic logic to the degree you have.

    So.....I REALLY HOPE....you are what I have a small degree of hope thinking what you are.

    WE MUST KNOW.....as if you ARE....a Plant....you are the BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN....and we cannot have you wasting such untrained or ill trained talent on a Political Forum as this.

    So....either you are ONE OF US....and someone has made a SERIOUS MISTAKE....or you are working for people who do not understand you potential.....or you could just possibly be practicing....OR.....I could be misreading this entire thing and you really are the way you are....GOD....I HOPE that is NOT the case.

    If you are the 1st above mentioned....you had BETTER...RIGHT NOW....make certain someone gives me a call....if they know what is good for the REST OF THEIR CARRIER....which without me getting a call will last all of 20 minutes.

    If you are the 2nd mentioned....PM me with a encrypted response and don't worry....we WILL handle things.

    If you are the 3rd mentioned....and you are simply some kind of Savant...PM me and I will have people pick you up within the hour.

    If you are the 4rth mentioned....and GOD I hope you are not....GOD HELP YOU!

    AboveAlpha
     
  15. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Cool your jets off there AboveAlpha, this is the internets! :rolleyes:

    Half the things on here are useless, baseless assertions and gossip. You're supposed to go LULZ!

    Have you had your coffee yet today? :coffeemachine::coffeecup:
     
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I never meant to infer he is a plant. Just that his views will make it quite likely people will turn away from christianity.
    Posting distortion after distortion and even his own links shows he is posting distortions and refuses, on purpose(IMO), to admit said distortions.
    No one is that ignorant without doing it purposely.
     
  17. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Really, so God knows BEFORE HAND who will be saved and who won't?

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    WanRen....has now endorsed Predestination.
     
  18. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    No....I did NOT have my coffee today and since there is 18 inches of snow on the ground I have NOT gone for my daily run as I am afraid I am going to slip and then get hurt and as my KNEE is still a bit uncomfortable I guess I am cranky.

    It is getting REAL CLOSE to my time so I always get Butterflies and my Sixth Sense is TWEEKING beyond belief as it always does just before I go.

    So....maybe this is nothing....but I certainly could use someone of WanRen's skill....IF....this person is who I am now less and less my the moment thinking they are.

    So....WanRen is either a Freakin' Genius....or so ignorant that I have not come to terms such a person could exist as such.

    AboveAlpha
     
  19. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for being honest.

    I am VERY EDGY today as I know I will soon be leaving and when you posted what you did it reminded me I thought the exact same thing a while back as I could not BELIEVE anyone could think like this or disregard logic...and when I just read your previous posts...since I am so jumpy to begin with....I think I started to over think...but in my JOB....better to over think and be wrong that under think and be clueless.

    But I will tell you....if he is....he would be the BEST I have ever seen.

    AboveAlpha
     
  20. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Ah, so now it's you who are that paranoid one, LOL! But at least I understand the strain and stress of worry. I know it well, about how you'll never be able to rest again until your task is complete. :bleh:
    (At least this shows you have dedication and a certain high quality about your work.)

    Do you want me to connect the dots for you about what I see? WanRen is telling a little bit of truth with a lot of opinion mixed in... because of creationism? or possibly just holding the view that Humans are holy and completely separate from other animals...

    His point was that "Ape" was once used in a different way. That's what he wants you to acknowledge. That's his point. Which he is sort of correct there, if a bit old fashioned. If he stopped there that would be the end of the conversation.

    But, then he continues... Which is where you came in to hammer away at his refusal to accept the current definitions (refusal due to WanRen's personal philosophy?).

    So while you're correct, and he is also correct to a point... I think you're arguing past each other instead of at each other, addressing the two individual issues (validation that the old term was different at one point, vs this is what it is today).

    I personally would be content to let this go on for a few more pages then just leave him to his opinions. If he were a troll out to destroy the reputation of Christianity he would eventually tip his hand one day... with the outrageous... it isn't a big deal, certainly not to call in the secret service, this kind of stuff happens from time to time all over the internet.
     
  21. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    First of all such a person that I would be referring to as a Genius would be acting as they were for ANOTHER PURPOSE....least of all giving Christian's a bad name.

    My last few posts are most likely a product of my mind running multiple simulations simultaneously while I was posting as I am capable of doing so.

    As far as the word Ape....and IT IS STILL USED AND WILL CONTINUED TO BE USED....even if details a clade of tailless catarrhine primates, belonging to the biological superfamily Hominoidea.

    WanRen looked at some words in a post I have many times placed on this forum that applied to what an APE is...and that posted sentence was and is....Apes are Old World anthropoid mammals.....etc.

    Now...when WanRen....read the words.....OLD WORLD ANTHROPOID MAMMALS....WanRen IMMEDIATELY latched on to the words....OLD WORLD....not understanding the REASON....APES....are Old World Anthropoids.

    You see there are two distinct Parvorders of anthropoids that have been evolving independent of each other for at least 30,000,000 years. They are They are the Platyrrhini (New World monkeys) the Catarrhini (Old World Monkeys and APES).....Hylobatidae consists of four genera and sixteen species of gibbon, including the lar gibbon and the siamang. They are commonly referred to as lesser apes....AND......Hominidae consists of orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos and HUMANS.

    You see....WanRen....saw the words....OLD WORLD....and....NEW WORLD....and thought this had something to do with how CENTURIES AGO....that the word APE had a different meaning......and that is why the term....Old World anthropoid mammals....differed from the term....New World anthropoid mammals.

    But you see it has NOTHING to do with that as there is NO SUCH THING AS NEW WORLD APE.

    ape (superfamily Hominoidea), any tailless primate of the families Hylobatidae (gibbons) and Hominidae (chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, gorillas, and human beings). Apes are found in the tropical forests of western and central Africa and Southeast Asia. Apes are distinguished from monkeys by the complete absence of a tail and the presence of an appendix and by their more complex brains. Although human beings are categorized zoologically as members of the broader ape superfamily, they are usually placed within their own subcategories on account of their larger brain size, more advanced cognitive abilities (particularly the ability to speak), and striding two-legged gait.

    LINK....http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/29410/ape

    So...there is no confusion and no Wgabrie....WanRen is not ALSO RIGHT.

    There is only ONE REALITY here and that Humans are in fact Apes...specifically....GREAT APES.

    AboveAlpha
     
  22. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Today the word ape has no scientific meaning that is why it has been redefine to its proper term Hominidae and when ever it is use it comes with a follow up that it means Hominidae."Hominidae (/hɒˈmɪnɨdiː/; also known as great apes" not the other way around. I am well beyond cowardice because I recognize the history and true meaning of that word while you hide behind it.

    And to make matters worse they included Ape and you agree on that too that that is still proper???


    I care because it is not right specially to the victims. I will not use that ape term because it is not the proper term you should use the proper term if you are really serious with real education and science.

    Global Warming = Global flooding = Noah's flood.

    Historicity of the Bible. The Amalekites all they do is attacking the Hebrew trying wipe them out.
     
  23. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Okay, thank you for the lesson. :smile:

    I really wasn't sure, and had no idea, if the term "Ape" was used in a different way years ago or not. I find Anthropology to be a boring subject and I never studied the history and events behind the science from the past few centuries. I therefore leave it to you with your expertise to deal with the situation...
     
  24. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Thank You...for many things.

    AboveAlpha
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I just KNOW....this is just going to be a waste of my time...but since I was brought up to believe EVERYONE has something of value to contribute I will ATTEMPT to inform you about some irrefutable FACTS.

    Never mind the FACT that all current Christian Leaders have agreed that the stories in the OLD TESTAMENT should NOT be believed or taken into account as PHYSICAL FACTS OF REALITY and that the only thing that is important to the Faithful is the LESSONS such stories impart upon the Faithful....YOU...still seem to be holding on to some misguided concept that Global Warming = Global flooding = Noah's flood.

    Look....this is a SIMPLE FACT.

    Even if all the Ice on Earth at the Poles in Glaciers on Greenland....everywhere it existed....MELTED....it could not come even CLOSE to covering all the land masses on Earth.

    LINK....http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/rising-seas/if-ice-melted-map

    The above link shows how a 216 foot rise in sea levels....the amount of rise in world wide sea levels that would occur if all ice on Earth Melted.....and this map and this link shows all continents....well it is obvious if all ice melted water levels would NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO COVERING ALL LAND MASSES.

    AboveAlpha
     
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