People who say God gives us free will are liars.

His comment which you quoted and which I now quote:

says nothing about anyone 'saying' anything.
Not quite the same thing as 'saying'.... hmmmm.

 

Fly like a beagle ...

You can do it , just flap harder ..

 

Sure it does, ones actions have consequences...so...you go ahead and try to fly like an eagle, when you land on your head DONT blame God...

That's free will my friend.....


It could happen....................NOT!

 

I don't want to try. I want to fly like an eagle. I have free will, right?

 

I have free will so it won't even be necessary to flap. I just will it so.

 

Wow! Another admission of 'free will'; though it will be likely followed by comment such as "no! that was sarcasm"... wait and see.

 

Don't be daft. His first sentence refers specifically to atheists. His second sentence describes the first.

That aside, he even responded to it in a manner that shows I understood his comments correctly.

Stop playing your (*)(*)(*)(*) word games, they only waste everyone's time.

 

Yes! The record does show that he did clarify his statement. On the other hand, I am correct in my assertion that at the time of his comment about 'believe', there was no mention of the term 'saying' or 'says' or 'said' or any other variation of the verb that would indicate that a spoken word was being made.

Aside from that; his first sentence does mention Atheists. However, his second sentence is not restrictive and does not make the second sentence 'group specific'... he used the term "anyone" which would not be restricted to 'atheists'.
Now, if you can show me where and how "saying" and "believing" or to "believe" are synonymous, then I will be content and will leave this subject alone.

 

Did you not catch the admission that, though it is not necessary, I have ears to flap or does that admission not matter to you?

 

No! I must have missed that one. Where is it located? Give me the link and I will return there and also make a comment regarding that one.

 

People believe what they say and say what they believe. To me, the two are interchangeable. What is the point of this piddling distinction?

 

Great post Flounder , and well said ...

 

And since we have free will, that eliminates the possibility of a omnipotent/omniscient being.

 

Free will gives you the permission to make such a claim, but the claim that you make in that regard cannot be proven. Scientific FACT... you cannot prove that claim.

 

The distinction is purely in the words that you chose when making your comment about the former poster. You made a statement that was in error (plain and simple). That error, shows that you are just as fallible as anyone else, and that your importance is no greater or no less than anyone else. The whole idea of my pointing out that error, is to remind you and others (myself included) to NOT be so high-minded as to think that you are better than the next guy or gal.

 

Well there is simply no difference in saying I believe something, or this is what I say about something.
To quibble over this is a bad omen for you.

As far as my statement being in error (atheists believe only in what they can see) I don't find any error at all. Atheists are literalists in the negative when it comes to God (i.e. I have never seen God therefore there is no God. You cannot show me proof of God). I am no better than the next poster but neither am I in error. If I am, no one has given me cause to think otherwise.
You've merely stated my post was in error. Anyone can do that.

 

Leaning on superstition now? how convenient.

Specifically where did you make that statement?

And you cannot disprove the existence of God. You also have never seen a single, stand alone, electron, yet you believe in their existence. Double standards anyone? You have never seen gravity, yet you believe in gravity; you have never seen oxygen, yet you believe in its existence. Any more double standards anyone?

The error was executed by you, therefore you erred in the use of your body and mind in making that execution. We all make similar errors in life. Welcome to the world of fallibility of man and mans judgment of self and surroundings.

 

If there is "free-will" then why is there "sin" and "hell"?

 

There is sin because people choose to disobey God. There is hell because God chose there to be a 'hell'.

 

I know it's not even worth it but no matter what free will allow or .. umm, disallow, it is logic that creates a contradiction between a simultaneous occurrence of omniscience and free will.

And yes, there is only one kind of logic, Incorporeal. If a philosophy must employ logic then that one kind of logic is what it must employ. Shocking, I know, but nevertheless all-out logical.

 

Holding a graduates degree in Computer Electronics, I also recognize that there is more than one form of logic and each form is dependent upon the philosophy that is being employed. I agree that within each philosophy, its required form of logic must be employed and is usually independent from all other forms of logic.

As for the presence of omniscience...Believers, unbelievers, theists and non-theists alike, are all confronted (coming face to face) daily with Omniscience. The problem is that most will (using their free will) choose to not recognize that presence and subsequently turn their backs on that presence. Sometimes they will even rationalize that presence by saying 'it is not logical'.

 

Can you offer an example?

 

Sure I can. But I won't. Why. Because it would only provide you and others more fuel for assaulting me and other Christians and Theists. So why should I provide you with the weapons you would need to attack me and others? You give me 10 good reasons why I should, and if the 10 good reasons are sufficiently stated, then I will give it due consideration.

 

Analogy time...

If one already has a massive stock of weapons with which to fight someone (either offensive or defensive), adding one more to the pile isn't going to make a difference.

And 10 reasons? LOL. Why 10? Where did you pull that number from?

 

In the military, one of the first things you learn about strategy is to never tell your opponents what your battle plan is or where your troops are located.

You are not satisfied with the 10? Cool... then make it 12, or 50, or 100. Take your pick.