Hello everyone, I am creating new thread because I feel that many of the other threads on this topic have gone completely off course and the topics in them have fallen into an emotional screaming debate. Warning: If you want to be emotional and angry and not talk facts please do NOT post on this thread. Now, I know I am going to get a lot of flack for this but personally I am pro choice. Now before you get angry and call me a murder please know I WANT to hear what you have to say and am interested in your opinions. Please tell me about any facts, experiences, ideas, etc. on the subject. My Pro Choice Opinion First of all I would like to make something clear, I am not for killing a fetus. In fact if faced with the decision I would never abort. BUT, I do believe that the woman who was raped and became pregnant because of it has the right to abort. I also believe that the great thing about our nation is our freedom. Now I know you may be rolling you eyes but hear me out, we as a people value our freedom more than most. Therefore people come to America to be free. With freedom comes the right to choose wrong. And abortion falls under that catigory. This is why I am pro choice.
Every argument that can be used to justify the current law on abortion could have been used to justify keeping slavery legal. "I personally am against slavery, but who am I to tell another person what they can and cannot buy?" "My property, my choice." etc. etc. etc.
YOUR "right to life" doesn't include the right to take up residence in someone else's body and suck all your sustenance from that person. You only have a "right to life" when you can sustain that life.
babies dont invade a womens body. they are created there as a result of the woman's actions. try again
So a woman's actions in this case require that she be punished? How the zef was created is immaterial, it still does not have the right to be sustained by a person who doesn't want to sustain it. You only have a "right to life" when you can sustain that life.
Here we go again that leap into places that have been explained to you before, are you willfully ignorant or just don't want to see. The Elderly & Children have a right to life because the have all the legality of being an individual sentient life. They inhale their own air and oxygenate their blood .. a fetus doesn't They are self aware and have a concept of past, present and future .. A fetus doesn't they have fully developed functions including pain responses .. a fetus doesn't (up until at least week 29) If you wish to disagree with any of the above please post your medical evidence to show how and why you disagree.
So she should receive punishment for her actions? That seems to be the only reason to refuse her the medical procedures she wishes.
The elderly and children are normally sustaining their own lives. In the case of injury or disablement, sometimes we voluntarily help them sustain their lives, but it is not required.
A person is responsible for their actions. You want them to not have any responsibility for what they do
but she is taking responsibility for her actions, she is getting a legal abortion as apposed to bringing a child into the world which could very well end up in a care system that cannot find homes for the children it already has and anyway the argument is moot as the zygote/fetus or whatever is NOT an individual sentient life which is nothing more (until around week 24) than a non destructive parasite, If however you can produce peer reviewed scientific evidence to counter that then please do post the links so we can all read them .. good luck with that. you may of course be basing your opinion on life from a religious prospective, which then leads to the question on are religious doctrine any more moral than scientific doctrine, again, if that is the case, it would be interesting to see your prove.
No, I want a person to exercise responsibility for choosing abortion or birth. I want that person to take that responsibility seriously. You want the person punished for simply choosing to have sex.
Males have 0 freedom of choice when it comes to abortion. SCOTUS decided that already. Now...We can say that is a very good thing with regard to rape but is it such a good thing where consent was given? As a male, the female is carrying your progeny yet, you have 0 rights if she decides to kill the fetus. Even if you are married to her. So, what we have is, in and effort to protect a minority of women, ALL men were summarily severed from their freedom of choice post conception based on a woman's right to privacy.
We are all punished by our errant actions from time to time. Some are menial reminders not to do it again, others alter one's life. Bad monetary decisions, criminal endeavors, not securing a ladder properly, driving while drunk, etc...You get the picture. In order to thwart bad things happening, one takes certain preventative measures like...Don't spend more than you have, don't do criminal behavior, make sure your ladder is secure BEFORE ascending, don't drive while drunk...etc. One has automatically made a physical commitment when engaging in consensual procreational sex. Both the man and woman should have made a solid commitment to each other and any result of the coupling...Anything else is nothing but irresponsible behavior. Getting an abortion as a way to whisk the fetus away is not only irresponsible but immoral as well.
as it should be, the male provides his support by providing half the genetic material, after that he really isn't required to do anything else, it his choice if he wishes to remain until the child is born . .nobody forces him to, where as what you propose is for the woman to be forced into carrying a fetus to term, that removes her right to choose to abort what is after all part of her. You therefore are agreeing that state intervention in personal choice should be allowed. If you contract a sexually transmitted disease you are not forced to disclose that fact to your partner, you choose to do so, would you advocate a law forcing all people with STD's to disclose that fact.
you need to go and check some figures, over 50% or woman who choose abortion are taking contraception .. so they are taking preventative measures. you really need to change this from "engaging in consensual procreational sex" to "engaging in consensual possible procreational sex", not all woman who have sex are doing so just to get pregnant. The rest of your opinion is based in a time long gone where woman knew there place and had no option but to concede to their husbands demands. don't even go down the moral route, what decide that your morals are better than someone elses, what is it that makes you moral, what do you judge your morals against, do you think you are more moral than someone living in another country or believing in a different religion, Is it morally right to force another person to do something they have no wish to do. Morals are not static items set in stone, they are fluid, the evolve and change as society changes.
I did not post that I wanted to force anyone to do anything. I said I think it is immoral to kill a fetus for convenience-sake. Both the male and female are responsible for creating the fetus in the first place. One would think that the person (female) that would take on the task of CARRYING the fetus would be more discerning BEFORE she lets a male pump her full of his semen.
50% is not an acceptable rate to claim birth control is effective. Example.....Say someone is pointing a gun at you and says there is a 50% chance a bullet will emerge from the barrel and enter your body....Would you take that chance? You are making false assumptions and statements about what I wrote. Your post reads like liberal talking points which tells me that you have not stopped to really think about this issue. Procreational type sex would be penis in vagina. Anytime that happens there is always a possibility of a pregnancy. Even you said there is a 50% chance. My question is...Why do women take that kind of chance with their lives and bodies? Answer: They have the last resort to kill the fetus. Call me old fashioned if you want to but that is just immoral. Why do you think that urging women and men to make a commitment to each other and whatever the result of their procreational love making is such a bad thing? OK then...I believe it is moral to shoot you. (not really just an example) It matters in the least what those old fashioned 'static' morals say...After all, I have my OWN set of morals. See how this works?
no. but thats less than 1% of abortions. anyways its not the babies fault. the baby did not rape the mother.... as much as you wish that were true the baby is completely innocent
100% of the woman who are taking contraception believe they are taking responsibility. In your scenario there are two things - 1. It would be my decision to make, which is something you want to remove from the woman. 2. It would depend on the situation really. and yours reads like a church manual, you have no idea how I have thought about this issue so making assumptions isn't really relevent. The idea that a penis entering a vagina is purely for procreational reasons has long gone. No, I said 50% of woman who choose to have an abortion were taking contraception. Why do they take that chance, because they can .. it is their choice, something you want to remove from them, something they fought for many years to obtain, or do you know nothing about the suffragettes. .. I've quoted this because you make the point for me It is the last resort where as many of your pro-life comrades belief woman use abortion like they use a car. Never said it was a bad thing, but you do know that a single partner relationship goes against our animal nature don't you .. so why is your commitment idea any more worthy than a multi partner relationship. Tell you what I'll change my opinion on abortion if along side the new laws it is also made law that there is no medical intervention for any naturally occurring illness .. let nature take its course, oh that would include the killing of unwanted babies as well, nature allows that you know. By your example you make my point for me, for some it very well may be moral to shoot me or anyone.. your morals are no more relevant than anybodies elses.
