Russia caught lying again. Finally admits truth about MH17

i do have idea; it was you who thought i don't, to such an extent that you belived i meant to say the plane was shot from multiple sides using multiple weapons; then who is stupid here?

you mean this pro-Western propagandist team of hacks? - https://www.bellingcat.com/

 

Cause that's what you said. Not me.

Was wondering how long it would be before you started with this classic troll line.

 

The "Russian troll" meme is real, boys and girls. It's the new western strategy for countering Russian opposition to western propaganda

 

When I know for sure what Yan Novikov said, and why he said whatever he said, I will have a better picture of what's going on.
In the meantime, There are a few facts against the US view of the matter:
1. The US habitually lies about the most important international events;
2. The Dutch investigation is prejudiced in favor of supporting US/EU assumptions;
3. The US jumped the gun on accusing Russia and NovoRussia based on zero evidence, thus showing dishonest intent.
4. The Kiev regime is a puppet of US/Israeli/Saudi interests, who are experts in pulling off false flag events and assassinations.
5. When proving a case, the testimony of 2 or more witnesses faithful to the truth are required to prove the issue.
6. So far the evidence is against the US and it's Kiev puppet regime.
7. Because the US habitually rigs evidence and covers evidence and creates fairy tales about important events to protect the guilty, we are all forced to cross examine what evidence is available. This process creates numerous hypothesai.

Those who have a vested interest in covering up the truth, usually create a religious dogma that is socially enforced to close the minds of most people.

 

Russian State owned media groups, all of them. The Russian Ministry of Defense. Several high ranking Russian politicians. Even Putin himself suggested it, though never directly claimed it. They've been doing it for almost a year now. And continue to do things such as parading around those fake photoshop photos of "Ukranian BUKs in the area around Zaroshchenske" or the "photo of a Ukrainian fighter jet firing on the plane" or "Ukranian pilot testifies he shot down the plane". I completely forgot about that last one lol. And since all those medias that have been saying these things and reporting it as facts are state owned, as well as the defense firm that made the BUKs, what they say and do is a direct representation of the government they are owned by.

With several of those groups, like the politicians and Putin, you may be right. It might just be their "personnel" opinions or speculations. But it is the official narrative of the Russian defense ministry and the State owned media agency's.

I completely agree with everything you said in the second paragraph.

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He clearly was the first one to start with his "pro western propaganda team of hacks" in reference to the independent source I presented that proved those photos were false.

 

Well according to woogs RT has reported this same story so go read it and reap.

1. Sure does. What's your point? Because the US does it Russia somehow magically doesn't do the same exact thing?

2. Based on what?

3. Russia blamed the Kiev and US just a few days after the attack. These accusations were based on absolutely nothing. US accusations were based on the fact that that the area where the middle was assumedly fired from was under Russian terrorist control at the time of the shooting. Hardly zero evidence.

4. Lol. Mmk dude. Did you know lizard people rule the world?

5. Ummmm... ok. That's absolutely not true. What happens to a case where there are no whiteness? They just throw out the case? Lol. This one was funnier then #

6. No. There is no evidence whatsoever to support this. If so present them.

7. Done.

 

it was you who made a point of that while ignoring my further explaination and trying to base your argument on a not clearly stated comment and use it to your own advantage, which exposes you as a person of low intellectual ability.

still paranoid and seeing trolls everywhere?.. should have searched for trolls the likes of Bellingcat first.

 

The Dutch investigator team promised the Kiev gangsters to reveal no evidence, data, or conclusions that are contrary to the boys in Kiev.
So some Russians blame the US/CIA gang. Based on the record of that gang, they have a good chance of being right.
When no witnesses are present, one has to patiently search for the truth. Most people are like the jump to conclusion police in the Sherlock Holmes stories.
So far there is not enough evidence to blame NovoRussia or Russia.

The very title of this thread is prejudicial and reveals a lack of devotion to discovering What Really Happened.

 

You made up your own, biased, title:


Actual link title: "MH17 crash: 'Old Buk missile used' - Russian firm"

From the link:
"A Russian defence firm says an old Buk missile it used to manufacture brought down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014.
The Almaz-Antey firm said the Buk M1 guided missile was fired from an area south of Zaroshchenske.
The statement is in line with previous Russian claims that Ukrainian forces, not the rebels, fired the missile.
The destruction of MH17 - a Boeing 777 - killed all 298 people on board. Ukraine blamed the pro-Russian rebels.
There is controversy about who controlled the Zaroshchenske area at the time. The Russian military said the town was under Ukrainian military control, whereas Ukrainian officials insisted it was already held by the rebels."

 

Please provide proof the Dutch investigators have ever made any such promise. Also you do realize the Dutch are going to release the full report this coming October, right? They are waiting tell they have all the evidence and facts they can gather before making any accusation. Like a good investigative team should do.

As much as there is evidence to blame Kiev and the CIA.

This title is completely appropriate. Russian media continuously lied and has been finally called out on those lies. No where in my title or my OP do I point fingers at any group. As that's is not the current point of this thread. The point in this thread is, as I stated, Russia has been caught lying about MH17. This does not automatically mean Russia is responsible per-say, but they did in fact lie .

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How so? Did I accuse Russia of the crime?

 

http://rt.com/news/264421-buk-missile-manufacturer-investigation/

 

Rational and intelligent people will still ask three very simple questions:

1. Why does Ukraine hide recordings of conversations between Ukrainian Air traffic control and the crew of MH17 from the worldwide public?
Ukraine's SBU security service confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner. What happens to the recordings next has been completely unknown to this day.

2. Why does the USA hide their satellite images from the worldwide public?
High-resolution images -- those from US spy satellites, for example -- could play a decisive role in the investigation.

3. Why do the Dutch investigators keep withholding the evidence from Flight MH 17 black boxes?
What are legal grounds for withholding evidence from the worldwide public?

I am actually shocked that ordinary people across the globe, Europeans in particular, did not force above mentioned governments into disclosing information they hide from the public.

Answers? Still pending.

 

No doubt the Dutch investigation will show that Russian rebels shot down the plane with a BUK missile

 

Answer to all three. Because unlike Russia, The Dutch led investigation team is waiting until they release the full report this October before pointing fingers at anyone. It is what unbiased people do.

 

The Russian govt. was pointing fingers before they had any evidence

 

Thank you. I can use that on people like Ivan who claim Yan never said such things.

 

what bull(*)(*)(*)(*) RT writes:

"However, none of Snezhnoe’s 48,000-strong population witnessed the huge rocket trail that BUK-M1 missile should have left behind."

 

Evidence that the Nederlands investigators may be prejudiced:
The Dutch government has refused to reveal details of a secret pact between members of the Joint Investigation Team examining the downed Flight MH17. If the participants, including Ukraine, don’t want information to be released, it will be kept secret.

The respected Dutch publication Elsevier made a request to the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice under the Freedom of Information Act to disclose the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) agreement, along with 16 other documents. The JIT consists of four countries - the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine - who are carrying out an investigation into the MH17 disaster, but not Malaysia. Malaysian Airlines, who operated the flight, has been criticized for flying through a war zone.

Part of the agreement between the four countries and the Dutch Public Prosecution Service, ensures that all these parties have the right to secrecy. This means that if any of the countries involved believe that some of the evidence may be damaging to them, they have the right to keep this secret.
“Of course [it is] an incredible situation: how can Ukraine, one of the two suspected parties, ever be offered such an agreement?” Dutch citizen Jan Fluitketel wrote in the newspaper Malaysia Today.

Despite the air crash taking place on July 17 in Eastern Ukraine, very little information has been released about any potential causes. However, rather than give the public a little insight into the investigation, the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice is more worried about saving face among the members of the investigation.
"I believe that this interest [international relations] is of greater importance than making the information public, as it is a unique investigation into an extremely serious event," the Ministry added, according to Elsevier.

Dutch MP Pieter Omtzigt, who is a member of the Christian Democratic Party, has made several requests for the information to be released to the public.
“We do not know what the Netherlands has committed itself to. The government neither published the agreement when we asked for it, nor did it show it to parliament,” he said in reaction to the ministry’s decision. “It is perfectly normal that the Netherlands cooperate with other countries in this complex investigation. Yet they even kept the existence of the agreement secret a first and that was unnecessary."

Malaysia is the only country to have directly negotiated with the anti-Kiev militias in the East of Ukraine, while the country’s Ambassador to the Netherlands said he was unhappy that Malaysia had not been included within the JIT. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte flew to Kuala Lumpur on November 5, but Malaysia says it still did not receive an invitation to join.

"We must first be included in the JIT, otherwise it would be hard for us to cooperate in the investigation. The parties inside the investigation must include us in the team, right now we are just a participant," said the Malaysian Inspector-General of Police Khalid Abu Bakar in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday, which was reported by the New Straits Times.
From http://rt.com/news/207243-netherlands-mh17-investigation-documents/

The article mentions: " Malaysian Airlines, who operated the flight, has been criticized for flying through a war zone." Yet it was Kiev hijackers that directed the plane to the site of it's demise.

 

Russia will yell "conspiracy!!!" when the Dutch report that the rebels most likely shot down the plane.

 

Who we gonna believe?
[video=youtube;0-CshrX947g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-CshrX947g[/video]

Videos of BUK missile vapor trails:
[video=youtube;DDXScnEKaP0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDXScnEKaP0[/video]

 

Moscow has once again called on Washington to reveal data on the MH17 crash in Ukraine. ..and again Washington refuses…I wonder why.

When the airliner fell, the investigative reporter Robert Parry noticed that some shady company was throwing big bucks around to keep the blame on Putin. He later found out it was Burisma Holdings and owned by Kolomoisky. He asked an Intelligence agent if they had any proof that it was shot down by the rebels and he said no...they couldn't find any. Everything seemed to point to some extremist group in Kiev.

A few months ago he asked the agent again if he found out anything new about the airliner, and he said no they didn't. Their conclusion was the same as before. What appalled me was that the only ones with a motive to shoot down the airliner was Ukraine since their forces were trapped in a cauldron... yet Washington and its media stooges kept throwing the blame on Putin and the rebels without revealing an ounce of proof.

Also the land the rebels were on was going to be fracked, so it was quite valuable to Kolomoisky's Burisma Haldings and Royal Dutch Shell, and this is why Kiev kept attacking and wouldn't give the inspectors a chance to examine the area and retrieve the bodies.

Via Sputnik News Agency…

Russia’s Foreign Ministry called on the United States on Wednesday to make public any evidence it has on last year’s crash of Malaysia Airlines’ flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine.

“If the United States has objective control data from satellites or the airborne warning and control system AWACS, it should be made public. The same applies to recordings of talks between controllers and Ukraine’s military sector,” the ministry said in a statement.

For which the Washington has elected to not make its images public domain, preferring to go off of social media tweets, youtube videos, and some English blogger named Belllingcat who sits in some London flat in his underwear, playing the part of an aviation/military/forensic expert…he is none of those.

But while we are in LaLa Land with regard to western main stream media coverage of Ukraine, it should be no surprise that the west presents hobbyists as experts.​

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150603/1022902399.html

 

No vapor trail in this video of the Malay Plane going down:
[video=youtube;yJiWi0mOLrk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJiWi0mOLrk[/video]

Other evidence including re-direct, falsifications, etc.
[video=youtube;YFlGLqiDogA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFlGLqiDogA[/video]

 

Because....... SLAVERY!!!!!

 

The original belief was that the airliner was mistaken for the plane Putin was in since it was in the vicinity at the time and was very similar. Could this be why the the investigation is so secretive? Another possibility is that the Malaysian Airliner was deliberately targeted, like the one before it that disappeared, so that its economy could be hurt. I read somewhere that the political stance of the Malaysian government at the UN upset some very evil nations.

 

Same old game Remember the Maine, Pearl Harbor, George Washington of Cuba, Magic Bullet, Gulf of Tonkin, Weapons of Mass Deception, Pancake Theory zzzzzzzzzzz