Seriously...What would it take for a GOD to prove itself?

That is the thing.....pretty much everything a supposed GOD did as detailed in the Bible could easily be done by not only an advanced Alien Race but as well can be done by people today.

AboveAlpha

 

Hahaaaa,...
People have never recognized this Gen 22 as prophecy about the crucifixion of Jesus , also attacked on a wooden cross, but then killed and resurrected at the last moment, like Abraham's son experienced.

What is also interesting is that instead of Abraham's son,... the adult sheep, or the mature Jewish peoples, themselves, would be killed during the Holocaust:

Gen. 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him, (an uncastrated male sheep), a ram, (also figuratively, [ayil: the political chiefs]; symbolic of the European Jewish rabbi), caught in a thicket (of the Nazi persecution to come), by his horns, (or, his power: [symbolic Dictionary]): and Abraham, (in analogy to God), went and took, (in absence of that lamb of God which later would come in 32 AD), the ram, (i.e.; the Jewish leadership in Europe of the 20th century to come), and offered him, (as a Burnt Offering, the sin offering, the Jewish people themselves: [Exodus 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, "Thus says the Lord, Israel is My son, my first born"), up (in holocaust) for a burnt offering (in the crematoriums to come, the Burnt Offering of Israel, the chosen son of God in the stead of (Isaac), his (only) son, (in analogy, as was Christ offered for their salvation).

 

Calm down. Dylan wasn't really even talking about the Bible story.

And yeh, now we know you'd argue with God himself

 

its an interesting question I had not thought about. God includes a lot of ideas beyond the capacity to perform miracles or do magic. How does he prove control over Heaven and hell or the future? How does he prove omniscience?

 

No. I don't care who or what is asking, I'd tell them to get (*)(*)(*)(*)ed.

But the important point here is as AA said .... what sort of despicably cruel egomaniac would demand such a thing - just to satisfy itself that it's sufficiently worshipped and feared?

 

"He" does what "happens."
It is a result of all His natural laws working together at the moment. a
They make the next Frame of Reality to be experienced.

God is Reality.
And in His image, Truth is born as the "history" of His series of Reality-frames, dropping one after the next.
The omniscient of God is evidenced by the singular Truth of the past, and the permanence of the network of Natural Laws dictating the past and promising the future.

 

Face it.
Reality is that way.
Abide and adapt to Reality.
Love it as the only one which exists.

It nurtures and permits you to live, while driving other species into the hell of extinction, because they could not or would not adapt to His demands.

 

The power of belief, is great with you. You have made up your mind that God does not exist, and it is virtually impossible for it ever to be proven. Now, I don't know if that is stupidity, created by your own ego, or genius. I might opt for the former though. One sees the same thing with people who believe in a god that looks and acts like petulant children. They believe in that god, and nothing will ever sway them, nor convince them otherwise. You have much in common with them, for both of you define your self images, by your beliefs.

 

God is Reality.

The muslims say that the only son of Abraham had to have been Ishmael.
Isaac came 13 years later, and made two sons.
So, it makes sense that Abraham was abiding by Sarah's angry demand that Ishmael be killed after his mother had started getting uppitty with her.

Abraham was taking Ishmael to his death because his wife had told him to do this.
Instead, the angel, a messenger, came into his head and said, just send him away with his mother, instead.

Nevertheless, the story was a prediction of allowing a believer to witness God before men, and risk their lives as the cost, which Jesus would do in the future. The details bare a one to one correspondence with the crucifixion:

2:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt ([nacah: try, prove]; use to show) Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am, (a parody of the name of God, himself, YHVH; [Exodus 3:14]).

Gen. 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, (as I shall take my own), thine only son, (as shall I take my only son), Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah, (a hill, like Golgotha, the place of the Skull, in Palestinia); and offer him there, (symbolically transferring guilt and sin to him; [Luke 24:47]), for a burnt offering, (a sin offering), upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Gen. 22:3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, (as would Jesus ride into Jerusalem to be crucified: [John 12:14]) and took two ([Matt 27:38]) of his young men, (as witnesses, as would Jesus take Mary and John to witness the Cross), clave the wood, (as if the pieces of the cross of Isaac's crucifixion), for the burnt offering, (the Jewish ritual for the transferal of sin; [Luke 24:47]), and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

Gen. 22:4 Then, (as example to the years of the ministry of Jesus yet to come), on the third "day," (the third yom, or three durations of time: [Luke 24:46]), Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off, (in the future).

 

Nice of you to make it clear that your operating definition of "create" is retarded.

 

He could prove omniscience by creating humans, knowing that they were going to sin, and not wipe all but 8 off the face of the planet when they did what he knew. That would be 1 thing.

 

Why not?

 

No we don't. We have some professional illusionists that can give a false impression of doing so, but only when they control the conditions under which they present their illusions. I would be impressed by an entity that could appear to me out of thin air in a public setting and grant me the power to levitate myself at will without the use of a mechanical device.

What is the point in arguing about the difficulty of the "miracle" to be performed as proof, when there is no entity that is even attempting the easiest of "miracles"?

 

Yes, that is the basic idea of Extinction and is part the science of Evolution.

 

I realize we're fast approaching the Post Human Era. People like AboveAlpha may have gotten a sneak preview of what's to come, and even normal scientists (physicists, geneticists) have a good idea of where we're going.

It seems to me that the idea of a God is fast running out. Especially when I consider that we might become God=like in our technology and life form. We have an intelligent brain that's leading us to create tools to replace the need for a God. And perhaps that was the plan all along... who needs needy children?

But the more I think about it, the more I find I'd need little proof at all. I don't see myself calling any entity THE God, but I consider that humans may one day become God-Like. And, anyway, I think personally I'd be flattered that a God or highly advanced Alien thought well enough of me to make the effort. A good attitude would go a long way.

However, here's a big thing: What happens after death? There's very little known. It's a completely unexplored thing, and we don't have the tools to understand it. There are hints that there's something else out there. Rumors from near-death experiences, ghosts, and so on. Of course, it could all be nothing, or it could be everything! We may never know.

 

Yeah...have not seen anyone walking on water lately.

AboveAlpha

 

Can we walk on water? Can we raise the dead?

Also, keep in mind that Jesus' miracles were done to people 2000 years ago, and designed for them, not us.

The Abraham/Isaac story, along with Job, are mainly fables which tell us why God permits evil. They were NEVER meant to be taken literally, even back then. The people knew they were just parables and took them as such (Strange, that our own fundamentalists are actually more backward than people millennia ago,or maybe not, I'm not at all sure about any theories I have about Bible Interpretation.)

So now you're asking God "What have you done for me lately? IF we believe the accounts then what he did would be pretty sufficient for most people, even today, but very few of us will believe them, given the 2000 years that separate us and the fact that others back then did them too. (Simon Masgisterius raised "dead" people, yes?)

My theory, (and it's not been put forth by anyone yet, so you're hearing it here first) is that the Romans were quite aware of all forms of government and tricks for same. There were all sorts of wonder workers in the area back then, why couldn't they have decided to use one for their purposes, (and killed him when he appeared to be getting out of hand)?

 

So JESUS was using DESIGNER MIRACLES??? LOL!!!

Judas say's to Jesus..."Dude! For crying out loud get rid of those cheap drab tricks and get HIP!!"

Jesus say's...."Hey Man....I can only afford to shop at GOD'S DISCOUNT MIRACLE SHOP!"

Judas say's...."Dude! Turn that water to wine and we will sell it and buy you a DESIGNER NAME BRAND!"

AboveAlpha

 

So then, what is it? Are the Bible stories all merely symbolic, or does the Bible record the occurrence of actual supernatural events? It appears to me that many desire to have it both ways.

I am not asking God for anything. It is the proponents of the notion that the God of the Bible (unlike other mythical gods) actually exists who claim to have access to supernatural powers.

Yes, the Romans are known to have been quite proficient in the art of incorporating local traditions into their own culture as they expanded their empire. I agree that there were probably numerous illusionists practicing their art back in those days -- just as there are today.

 

They did eventually snag that theme. It's history: The role-model Christ was posthumously corrupted by Paul and Peter, turning him into a mythical rescue superman. Constantine sanctified it statewide, and the Council of Nicea cemented phoniness into Christianity by banning all contrary influences such as the self-uplifting spiritual/mystical tenets of Gnosticism and the true extent of contribution from feminine aspects.

So what took them so long to catch on? They had their own established gods and goddesses. Constantine was the turning point. He had a vision in the sky that seemed to relate to his battle victory and the persistent encroachment of the new religion.

 

Does anyone here remember the last time a Christian said "Christianity is a science"? No? Me neither. Christianity is a religion that supposes "faith", not "evidence". But, by all means, let's start 2015 of the same way we do every year... let's keep hammering the Christians for not having scientific evidence for something that is based in belief. I'm sure 2015 will prove to be the year that that actually makes sense, and produces results.

 

If, say, a chimpanzee started a religion he'd probably know to provide jury-level of evidence....but Jesus didn't do that, because, well, compared to a chimp,............

 

This is the perfect post. You demonstrate the intolerance of atheists. I won't report this blatent breaking of rules because I want your post to remain. I want people to see these types of things.

On another subject I certainly touched a nerve with you didn't I?

 

In other words, "Jesus" is so uncaring, that he doesn't particularly care about keeping people who are alive TODAY out of hell, or else his magic tricks would have been much much more elaborate/convincing to get people TODAY to believe that he's actually divine. He'd have to have gone well beyond David Copperfield or Chris Angel, that's for sure. So he maybe cared about people 2000 years ago, but not about people today, so he's not worth worshiping.

Or maybe he wasn't real in the first place, as some simple magic tricks was all he could conjure up (so he's just a failed bronze-age magician.)

 

I didn't compare any forum member to a chimp (only an imaginary friend.)

Also, since I myself care about people more than Jesus would have, I myself (along with other life forms) would have provided jury-level of evidence. Bigfoot hasn't, Zeus hasn't, Allah hasn't, and neither did Jesus.

Sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about "touched a nerve".