something from nothing

Your choice system of logic does not compel my mind to accept what you have stated as true. Rejected.

 

of course you reject it. it's far to awkward to allow to take up residence in your carefully arranged mental parlour.

 

Oh, we freely get to choose our predestined choice.

 

Too asinine to take up space in my carefully arranged parlor. (check your spelling)

 

check yer own spelling, mon Poppet. in some quarters of the English speaking world we use the original arrangement

 

You seemingly paid no mind to the scripture I pointed out a couple of days ago. But of course, if you truly want to believe that you have no choices in life that are not controlled by God, then that is fine with me... at least you are a believer in the existence of God if you are declaring that He controls your life. Of course we don't know exactly which god you are allowing to control your life.

 

That is your mere opinion that I have not.

I have posted a link that shows how Chromosome 2 (human). proves we are part of the Great Ape Family along with the Chimpanzee, Orangutan and Gorilla. All 4 of us evolved from a common ancestor, which would be Pierolapithecus, the last KNOWN link between the Great Ape Family.

This disproves the bibles claim that man was not made out of dust (Genesis 2:7). This EVIDENCE may not be good enough for you, but it was good enough to get Creationism out of the classroom in Maryland in the case Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District. You may claim I have not addressed your questions, but I have. And with EVIDENCE.

 

fixed it for you!

"of course we don't know exactly which god we are allowing to control our lives"

 

Pointing out logical fallacies of free will with an omnipotent, omniscient being is NOT declaring that this myth even exists, let alone that this myth controls anything, let alone ones life.

 

All of that resource material you have provided does not in any way shape or form disprove the 'Bible'. All that you have provided is the opinions of other people in a major appeal to authority. YOU have not proven anything and in fact you have not even come close to providing argument or evidence that would compel my mind to accept what you have submitted as true.

 

It does. IT shows how Chromosome 2 (human). proves we are part of the Great Ape Family along with the Chimpanzee, Orangutan and Gorilla. All 4 of us evolved from a common ancestor, which would be Pierolapithecus, the last KNOWN link between the Great Ape Family. This disproves the book of lies....errrr genesis that man was made from dust (genesis 2.7).

Sorry you cannot deal with that fact that you are related to a Chimpanzee.

 

Show irrefutable PROOF of claim. Tangible proof in the form of a complete personal family history dating back to the episode where such relationship took place.

 

Chromosome 2 (human) - Next

 

A chemical 'reaction' has knowledge? Since when does a reaction use knowledge?

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Shhhh. You'll upset the cart.
We are not forced to choose the predestined choice. That is the point.

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But it isn't 100% knowledge or absolute truth.

 

Theists seem to have some difficulty with the idea of randomness, and this imposition of necessary knowledge appears to play to that.

 

I didn't get the relevance of those scriptures written by man.
Wait, I've been saying we freely choose the known choices all along. You haven't disputed that.
And I do not know which, if any, God is controlling my life.

 

well it's a dud point

I think Inc misses the better point - that is that if the thing is predetermined, then by necessity you're obliged (forced) to take option B.

 

Both of you seem to be missing the point found at option 'C'.. That option allows for only a select group to be predestined and live under that control, while the remainder has absolute free will in making their decisions and taking whatever actions that make them feel good. It ties right in with that new age philosophy of 'if it feels good, then do it." Of course option 'c' comes with an eternal penalty.... being tortured in a lake of fire and never finding any relief from the agony. Sure glad I won't be in that group.

 

Well, considering that you openly admit that you don't know which if any God is controlling your life, then I would venture to say that you are one of the many who do have 'free will'. If God was controlling your life, you would certainly know about it.

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you seem to be not wearing your glasses this evening... I said 'irrefutable' PROOF. Not something fantasy magazine article.

 

Take a bunch of random chemicals and mix them together. Some of them will react to others while still some more will not react with another group... where did they learn which ones they could interact with? We have knowledge which states which ones can and cannot react and we studied and learned that knowledge from the chemicals... so where did the chemicals get the knowledge to pass on to us? heck.. some chemicals even have a 'shelf LIFE'... so those chemicals must also be alive.

That is partly right if you are in that group that does not have to choose the predestined choice. Unfortunately some of us do have to follow that predestined choice.

I will have to give that one a big AMEN. So, without 100% knowledge or absolute truth, then it amounts to guess work. OOOOOh... I hope that doesn't hurt any feelings.

 

Even if 'no God' controls my life. I am still not sold on the idea of free will. Everything is influenced by life, teachings, personality, and other things.
There was a thread a while back about this subject and wanted theists to stay out. It was interesting.

 

Every carbon based element is alive, AFAIK. And things that aren't alive still deteriorate and will change states, matter, at some point in time, again AFAIK. Nothing last forever.

For those who must follow that predestined choice, how is their freewill for them?

Going to the moon required guess work. You hope, your guesses are good enough to carry out the needed task.

 

Quasi-free will... There is an instant warning system that allows the person to give further consideration prior to committing to a particular act... That warning system is usually sufficient to stop the considered activity, , but sometimes the self-will will override the safeguards... then comes the instant penalty (or near instant)... then comes the asking again.... and again... and again... usually on a daily basis for most people in that group.

Guessing at the integrity of O-Rings will also put an end to particular trips scheduled for the moon... see the Challenger incident.

 

Other things no doubt will have an influence on your decisions... however,,, we were not talking about 'other things' we were talking about God and His influence/control or lack thereof.

I wish I had known about such a group.. I think I would have enjoyed that subject matter.

 

No matter. The choice chosen had to be chosen. For it was already known and predestined.

No, I have no proof. I'd bet money had more to do with that accident than an accurate guess. Money/time/risk/reward. Someone took a chance and lost.