Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down plane

Hahaha. Let me explain the facts of life to you Ronstar. Justice is supposed to be blind to prejudice not blind to stacking the deck. And in at least four of the five nations above calling for this so called tribunal there is clear political prejudice taking place. Ergo:

The Dutch and are part of NATO and therefore biased because NATO has already come out against Russia without providing any hard evidence. Belgium is the NATO member where NATO is headquartered. Ditto. The current Australian government is outrageously pro-American and anti Russian that they too can't be trusted to be independent. And then we have Ukraine - who as we all know are seriously impartial about MH-17 , especially as it seems pretty clear that a rogue Ukrainian oligarch was likely responsible for bringing it down in a false flag operation designed to cause the resulting chaos that the US neoncons desired.

And I'll add a rider to the foregoing. The fact that the Netherlands are part of this outrageous prejudiced suggestion clearly shows that they have already decided what they'll find even before they've finalized their investigation. Nice.

 

Malaysia is not part of NATO.

They are not part of the West.

They are a Muslim nation.

and yet you think they are also part of the evil anti-Russian conspiracy.

your hole is getting deeper, and deeper.

 

I don't think I mentioned Malaysia did I? I merely demonstrated that 4 of the 5 were in the western camp and are therefore utterly prejudiced and incapable of being independent or reaching a fair and unbiased decision.

Being a Muslim nation has nothing to do it so far as I can see. Plenty of those favour US/Western foreign and economic policies. This is a red herring.

Not being "part of the west" as you claim is not supported the facts or their history. This is simply another Ronstar claim - which like so many of them - simply has no basis in fact.

Malaysia's system of government is based on the British Parliamentary system. They adopted this after becoming independent following the removal of Britain protectorate status post WWII. They favour the west too, as witnessed by the fact that Malaysia is part of the British Commonwealth of Nations. They are also one of the members of the 5 Power Defence Arrangement, - the other four members being Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore (3 of these five are members of the so called "5 eyes" that collect and share intelligence with the USA). Their armed forces are supplied with hardware from western nations, primarily the US.

So independent they ain't.

 

The complete story of and around MH17 is hard to rate. Aside some silly allegations and so on, the search for the responsible is hard, because several scenarios are possible. Further was no real and normal investigation after it possible, due to the fact that MH17 crashed in a war zone!

So let us take the facts and make Questions:

01)
MH17 flew on July 14, 2014 from Amsterdam to Indonesia.
At 12:53h UTC Air Control asked MH17 to go from 33,000 feet up to 35,000 feet due to a crossing plane from Singapore Airlines. The crew of MH17 denied and so Singapore Airlines went up to 35,000 feet.
At 13:00h UTC the crew of MH17 asked for a slight change of the flight path to the North due to bad weather. Flight control released that and asked MH17 to go up to 34,000 feet, what was denied by MH17 crew again. The plane turned slightly to the left and reached the airspace above Donezk which is closed for all flights under 32,000 feet due to the civil war. MH17 was still on 33,000 feet at this time. This closing was in majority due to the shot down of a Ukrainian Antonov 26, 3 days before and which was on about 26,000 feet.
At 13:20h UTC MH17 was around 7km north of the planned path when the radio signal broke off suddenly and unexpected. Russian Air Control Radar confirmed that MH17 lost suddenly speed and went down very fast, 90 seconds later radar lost last contact.

MH17 smashed down – the aft and middle part were in majority found near village Hrabowe (Sorry if wrong written … H is in Russian N. The front part with cockpit near viallage of Rossypne about 8.5 km north east of Hrabowe the rest and many parts were between both major impact areas.

02)
Because impact was full in the war zone of the civil war, the investigation and recovery was more as difficult and far away from any normal international standards as known from the many “normal” accidents. The area was full under control of the Pro-Russian Militia and they tried for the first to make the recovery and investigation by their own … far away from status to be specialists. The area was un-guarded and it is by Militia itself confirmed that there was looting done too. The Militia recovered the bodies of the front part, 3 days later the rest and brought them to Tores! Only after Russian intervention, the first OSCE observers could enter on July 18, 2014 = 4 days later the area.
The unprofessional behavior of the Militia during these 4 days after the crash in general opens the door for much bad speculations in matter of hiding evidences by them.
However this is rated in detail, the incorrect acting and the looting destroyed much of important evidence too.

03)
With what was MH17 shot down?
The minor possible, but not yet excluded issue is that of an air to air missile. But the problem is that neither the Russian radar, nor any other radar spotted a possible attacking plane. Further, Singapore Airlines plane, as well another Airliner were both relative close to MH17. But this must not mean anything at least and a plane is still possible, but unlikely. If it was a fighter plane, the question is of course from whom and here are only Ukraine or Russia itself possible, but both deny that not only, they confirm unwilling each other that there was even no one from the other side.

So we have left over only an Air Defense weapon is this most likely and here always is only the system BUK in discussion (Nato Code SA-11). Too make it short: It is under hard discussion if the Militia had this system and if they were able to handle it. There are a bunch of reports, analyses, videos, photos and so on arguing, claiming and the disputed … from all sides about.

For me important and the core evidence is that: The local commander of Russian Militia – Igor Girkin (aka Strelkow) reported proudly on 13:37h UTC = 17min after MH17 went down and right in this same area the shot down of a Ukrainian Antonov … but there was no Antonov! This was proofed by videos too showing the smoke trail going up and the words “we have warned you not to flight in our air!” (Original: Предупреждали же - не летать в ‚нашем небе&#8216.
Strelkow denied later to have done this … later means after it was clear that MH17 and not a Antonov went down! Also it was tried to delete the original report in internet, but with no success.
Further, the Russian News TV “LifeNews” reported on their Website that at Tores (Area of crash) a Ukrainian Antonov was shot down by Militia on 14:30 UTC. Sure, this is 1 hour later, maybe a miss-type only, but again: There was no Antonov lost here … only MH17 was only one!
Also this report was later deleted … and refreshed wit report about MH17 … but no further remark about Militia claim to have shot down an Antonov.

All the rest of claims, photos, videos, reports and so on, showing or denying this and that as proof are minor important. Fact is that Buk systems needs to be handled by trained personal, but it is no science to handle the system. Any reserve soldiers of old Red Army from ADA missile units are able to do this!

My conclusion: MH17 was shot down by badly human error and by Russian Militia / Rebels as pure mistake by thinking it is an Antonov. So no one wants to shoot down an Airliner here and all this bullcrap of conspiracy is not even worth to use a single brain cell for.
Human Error only at least … but because of the high political turmoil having, Rebels are of course not willing to say “yes, we were and sorry. We thought it was an Antonov of our enemies”.
Although … no one of ICAO or any other national sub organization is willing to say that it was madness to allow any flights above this area when still 2 Ukrainian Antonov were shot down days before. So no one has the balls to say truth at least!

 

The West can forge investigation. As was in Yugoslavia... in everything, Serbians were guilty of the majority and many were died during court procedure. (Croats and the more so NATO which killed a lot of peace people , aren't guilty...) Russia doesn't want that also occurred with pro - Russian Ukrainians or Russians, against whom for example there will be a procedure and they will perish for some reason. (even not the guilty)
And to rely on the liar of the West led by the U.S. - it the same to trust in an honest game of cards with Card sharp.

 

Only the brainwashed believed any different. There was too much evidence pointing to Putin's terrorists to ignore.

 

In regard to the independent "fifth" nation calling for an international tribunal to weight evidence against Russia on the MH-17 shoot-down, the below, written by the then Malaysian Minister of Defence, is self evident.

In all this makes the idea of the tribunal being independent a simple farce. Every member is either a NATO member or historically and deeply aligned with the west militarily and intelligence wise.

Source

I hope we can now agree to put this particular subject to bed and wait for NATO founding member, the Netherlands, to reach a pre-determined conclusion on MH-17 --- at which point we'll all have to go through the whole tedious subject again as various well known members ratchet up their anti-Russian rhetoric to a crazed level.

 

Philip Giraldi is a former CIA Case Officer and Army Intelligence Officer with over 20 years of service overseas and agrees with me that Kolomoisky might have been involved in shooting down the airliner. It was his firm Burisma Holding that was throwing the big bucks around Washington to keep the blame on Putin.

German Intelligence said the photos Kiev provided had been 'doctored' and the conversations among the separatists claiming credit for it were found to be 'composite' fakes and had been produced by the Ukrainian intelligence services.

If German Intelligence knows this, then surely American intelligence does as well, but it's keeping it secret from the American public. This would not be the first time our government has lied in order to intervene in others nations. This time they're lying about Russia to instigate problems, which means the consequences will be catastrophic. You don't mess with a nation which has always been an empire and never subservient to others.

I think Washington needs a dose of common sense...but I guess I'd be asking for too much. Here's a few excerpts from the article:

According to leaks of its conclusions, the report will admit that there is no conclusive evidence regarding who is responsible for the shoot down but it will nevertheless make a circumstantial case that the pro-Russian separatists are the most likely suspects in spite of the fact that there is no hard technical or intelligence related evidence supporting that judgment. Blaming the separatists will, by implication, also blame Moscow.

At this point, the United States, which together with other interested parties has been reviewing a copy of the report in draft, does not intend to present its own findings but will instead go along with the Dutch conclusions.

Some analysts who have looked at all the considerable body of information that has been collected relating to the downing actually believe that the most likely candidate might well be the then governor of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Ihor Kolomoisky, an oligarch billionaire who is an Israeli-Ukrainian dual national.

Kolomoisky is known to employ Israeli mercenaries as advisers and has personally organized and paid for militias fighting the Russian separatists. He would have been strongly motivated to create an incident that could plausibly be blamed on the Russians or their surrogates and he had the means to do so.

The government in Kiev acting independently also had the resources and motive to shoot down the plane and blame it on Moscow.

The original claims that Russia was involved were based on snap judgments based on bits of information that had been obtained immediately after the event, little of which has been subsequently corroborated through either satellite imagery or electronic and signal intercepts.

Since that time the German BND intelligence service has expressed its doubts that the missile used in the shoot down could have been supplied by Russia and has also claimed that photos provided by the Ukrainian government as part of the investigation had been “doctored.”

There have also been reports regarding a Ukrainian fighter plane being in the area of the airliner as well as the nearby presence of Ukrainian ground to air missile units.

Reported conversations among separatist claiming credit were eventually determined to be composite fakes produced by the Ukrainian intelligence services.

Presumably U.S. intelligence has also taken a long and hard look at all the evidence or lack thereof but it is being quiet regarding what it has determined.

Americans have been lied into intervention and war more than once over the past fifteen years and it should be clear to all that any contrived crisis based on an erroneous conclusion regarding a shot down airliner that develops into an armed conflict with Russia will have unimaginable consequences.

A skeptical American public and international community must demand that any MH-17 report should reflect a full assessment, to include any dissent from its conclusions registered by the United States intelligence community.

Any information at variance with the conventional view, particularly anything that suggests that there might be other interested parties who had both the means and compelling interest to shoot down a civilian airliner, must become a part of the discussion.​

http://russia-insider.com/en/mh17-blaming-putin-game-goes/ri8763

 

German Intelligence Services says russian rebels most likely shot down the plane by accident.

 

Of course.

But Russia knows that Ukraine could have shot that plane down with a buk missile, even when others say it's not possible with that distance. Russia knows that, because Ukraine shot down a Russian commercial plane full with Israeli Jews with a buk missile when others said it's not possible with that distance. But at time.. they were the only country/party who could have done it. They even had a military exercise with them weapons at that time. They also paid 200.000 a victim in 2001 to bribe their families to (*)(*)(*)(*).

And tbh....
The UN did not go for a UN trial with that plane in 2001.
The UN did not go for a UN trial when the US shot down an Iranian commercial plane full with passengers.
So the Russians are right to go like... we're going to veto this when you want a trial now when you feel like it.

 

"Most likely" is a suspicion, not a fact. And, it may not even be a suspicion, but simply what they were told to say.
The US began Operation Gladio to make sure that anyone in European political office who does not follow orders, will soon disappear.

 

The name Gladio derives from a short Roman thrusting sword, the Gladius. Here is a perfect example of said sword:



This is the logo of Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE).

It's been a long time since I requested a FOIA from the CIA on a variety of Gladio operations in domestic European allied countries, but when I did they were denied on security grounds. Most of what Gladio was about was to ensure that western Europe did not politically switch to the left. All sorts of vile actions were taken to guarantee that aim, including numerous bombings resulting in large civilian casualties. These terrorist acts were then blamed on the Red Brigades etc.

 

Ehm … first of all: The Ukraine never denied to have done this bad human mistake here!
Secondly it was no BUK missile here, it was a S-200 aka SA-5 “Gommon” which shot down the Russian TU-154.

Finally:
Yes … this Western nagging, calling and trolling around for UN trial is at least in my opinion bull…. at all.
But we have here unfortunately the situation that no one takes over responsibility for this case. As told previously, I have no doubts that it was done by Russian Rebels with a BUK … backed by several points … but only by bad mistake in thinking or wanting to shot down a Ukrainian Antonov An-26 … so no intention.

For me this UN Trial jabbering is superfluous too, because it was a crime itself to let Airspace over these war zones open … and this limit of under 32,000 feet forbidden is ridiculous at all.
If one side is using his Airforce against the other one … and if this other one has high(er) range Air Defence systems against as proofed with shot down of 2 Antonov AN-26 before, it is unbelievable irresponsible to let the Air Space for normal international air traffic. And here are … aside Ukrainian AND Russian Civil Aviation Authorities … in majority the ICAO to blame for!
So if any trial, ICAO has to sit down on dock too!

 

You know that GLADIO was during Cold War and is nothing of today?

But OK ... conspiracy everywhere and of course still actual and current under this name or other names.

 

They would wouldn't they. They have an extremely shady history.

Post WWII they were reformed under former Nazi Reinhard Gehlen under the tutelage and control of the US. Gehlen used lots of former nazis as Gehlen Org agents. One of these was Alois Brunner, an assistant of Adolf Eichman, architecht of the so called Final Solution and Commandant of the Nancy Extermination Camp where over 140,000 jews were gassed to death. Wanted by some for war crimes, he claims to have been given official papers using a false name by American officials, he fled along the Vatican Ratlines to Syria, where he was hired as a government adviser on subject believed to be torture and repression techniques. Unrepetant in later years he said his only regret about the war was that he had been unable to murder more jews. The Gehlen Org later became todays BND. In a 2011 Der Spiegel article it was reported that the BND, the German intelligence service destroyed its file on Brunner.

However, American intelligence does not find that credible. From Robert Parry:

And, more importantly:

(my bolding)

Read the whole story HERE.

 

But there is now a "Gladio B" in operation, or did you not know that? See Sibel Edmonds articles and books on this - available at her website BoilingFrogsPost.

 

Robert Parry is a liar and an idiot.

 

I have him on ignore, so I can't respond, but tell him to give references...he never does.

 

Aside point that Sibel Edmonds and Robert Parry are only trolls which are jabbering nonsense around as still did in the past. Edmonds works are not more as angry paybacks full of un-proofed claims to those who dismissed her (see her process) and Perry speaks for his self ... but where is any need for Gladio B? No need at all and do you really believe that this will still work today?

 

That was clear and no real doubt about from my side ... but this was not done with intention, it was a very bad mistake and human error at least!

Can Russia itself be blamed for it? No in my opinion!

 

When the truth is too uncomfortable, defame the messenger. That is always a sign of a weak argument.

 

no, in this case, he actually is a liar and an idiot.

hey, if you guys can claim a vasy Western conspiracy to defaim Russia, we can attack your sources as morons.

Parry posted an article saying that the German Intelligence blaimed Ukraine for MH17.

his link, said the opposite.

so he's a liar and a fool


...nevermind the fact that Vladimir Putin is a professional liar, ex-KGB officer.

 

Fools are a dime a dozen. Having read several of Parry's articles, he is no fool.

Someone who believes mainstream media without question, someone who believes government press releases without question--those are fools.

 

I don't know of any recordings being released from the controllers office, so I don't know where you are getting your facts from. How about giving us a few references?

This is where you're wrong. The Donbas Freedom Fighters had given full access to the investigators, but the Ukrainian military wouldn't stop attacking the area. It was a deliberate intent on the part of Kiev to keep the investigators from examining the site.

I think you're getting your information from the Washington propaganda networks. How about finding some more reliable sources.

 

as is someone who trust Putin and Russian media, whish is almost entirely government owned and controlled.

- - - Updated - - -

funny, the MH 17 investigators claim the opposite.