Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down plane

I believe the Ukrainian jets which had been bombing the cities in the Dombas, were all shot down by 'manpads', which are shoulder carried missiles. The Ukrainian air force is almost non existent because of them so why would the Donbas Freedom Fighters need a BUK? As for the airliner, it was too high for the manpads...and this is why the Washington propagandists say that the Freedom Fighters had used a BUK when there is no proof they had one, and didn't have a need for one either.

The only ones that had BUKS was the Ukrainian army, and two days before the shoot down, I recall reading that they had brought four into the area. According to American Intelligence, the only photos they have of a BUK being activated at the time of the shoot down, is one showing men in Ukrainian uniforms...which they had found puzzling, since they were made to believe otherwise. (Robert Parry of Consortiumnews)

Also to say they had mistaken the airliner for a Ukrainian transport plane is ridiculous, since it would have been heading towards the Russian air base. Only Russian planes took that route..so the whole thing is absurd. It's like saying the Donbas Russians had a BUK to shoot down a Russian plane.

To cover up the absurdity of it all, Washington's controlled media and its propaganda machine, has to spread lies and make up stories...like the Freedom Fighters ransacking and stealing passengers belongings when they were probably told by their commander to collect the passports. or the cover of a magazine in Europe with a Freedom Fighter holding up a teddy bear as a sign of triumph. The complete video shows him bowing his head after he put it down, and then saying a prayer as he made the sign of the Cross.

This all shows the insanity of Washington and its media. They have to be void of any moral boundaries, otherwise how could they lie without any qualms? Frankly I see them as sociopaths.

.

 

the rebels had a BUK

 

Now here's the best. We have the main culprits for the shoot down of the MH17 deciding to classify the investigation. No one is allowed to know or discuss what happened. In the meantime there is talk of some kind of tribunal, where the accused will be Russia and Donbass no doubt.

Yesterday the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine on European integration, Elena Zerkal said:

"With regard to criminal investigation, we set up a joint investigation team and the investigation is still ongoing. At the same time it is classified and confidential and the results will not be presented for public discussion."​

​

http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/07/ukraine-results-of-mh-17-disaster.html

 

the main culpruts are the Russian rebels.

the investigators have complete and total access to all data from the Ukrainians.

it is the rebels, who have restricted access to the investigators

 

The fact that so much time was spent at the beginning by the Russian's and the Crimean Seperatists to make the rediculous assertion that a Ukrainian SU-25 using R-60 Rockets shot down a Boeing 777 traveling at 33,000 feet at 550 mph....which is impossible....pretty much sums up who shot down MH17.

When it became obvious that the Ukrainian SU-25 could not have shot the 777 down they began to change their story saying that the BUK SAM was Ukrainian.....but any Ukrainian BUK's were well out of range of where and when the 777 was shot down.

The Russian's and Crimean Seperatists should just admit it and apologize for the sake of the families of those poor people who died flying in the MH17.

AboveAlpha

 

I believe the Ukrainian jets which had been bombing the cities in the Donbass, destroyed themselves! Why not? Ukrainians constantly say that they don't bomb Donbass, it is Donbass themselves bombs and west believe these b***st

 

Obama and Poroshenko has to apologize for murders of people Donbass.

 

When has any US regime apologized for its legalized torture and murder of whole cities and nations?
Oh, they apologized for stealing Hawaii, but they didn't give it back and have not repented of anything, except maybe of not killing enough people.

In the meantime, devils running with " three unclean spirits like frogs", mentioned in Revelation, 16 are pushing with all sorts of lies to get people to go to yet another Armageddon, this time involving Russia.

 

What has been going on is now a dirty war carried on by both the Russian Weapon supplied Crimean Seperatists with Spetsnaz advisors and the Ukrainian Military.

The U.S. has nothing to do with target selections of dense population centers used by Spetsnaz and Seperatists as launching and staging areas for incursions into Ukrainian Territory.

If we want to see and end to this Russia and Putin need to remove all Spetsnaz Forces out of the Crimea and the swath of land running along the western Black Sea shoreline from Russia to the Crimea....and then the U.S. will force the Ukrainian's to stop attacking these areas.

That's the only way this will end.

AboveAlpha

 

Another unclean spirit trying to herd the peasants into Armageddon over the US directed war on all of Ukraine not just NovoRussia.

 

Uhhh.....please remind us who annexed a part of the Ukraine?

AboveAlpha

 

The U.S. helpers for the maniac Poroshenko...

 

The Talmudists planned to bring great harm and suffering to the people of Crimea, and when Crimean people joined Russia to escape, the Talmudists rant and rave about the evil Russians.

When they get caught doing their stuff, they always blame someone else, and quite often their victims. It's called Chutzpah.

 

You know Ivan....the people of the Ukraine elected a Russian supported leader....and what happened?

Viktor Yanukovych attemped to change the Ukrainian Constitution....he had all sorts of illegal money making deals going....and he ordered his security forces to open fire upon peaceful protestors and he became so hated that even the state Police and the Crimean's by a large percentage wanted him gone.

They began the process of legally removing Viktor Yanukovych from power when Yanukovych left the Ukraine as he knew what he did was illegal.

Putin was LIVID WITH Viktor Yanukovych as he fled to Russia and for awhile Yanukovych had to hide within Russia as Putin had the Russian Police and the FSB out looking for him!!

Putin himself stated on Russian TV that he was angry with Yanukovych because he was supported by Russia and by Russian Speaking Crimean's until they learned of his illegal activities and the shooting and murder of peaceful protestors was the last straw as both the Russian Speaking Crimean's and the rest of the Ukraine WANTED HIM REMOVED FROM OFFICE!!

For some time it was rumored and these rumors turned out to be a fact....that Putin was so angry that Yanukovych had abandoned his Leadership position in the Ukraine like a coward as he ran and hid in Russia that Putin had PUT A BOUNTY OUT ON YANUKOVYCH'S HEAD!!!

Yanukovych surfaced for a short time...and I mean SHORT AS IN LESS THAN 30 MINUTES to state that he was still the Legitimate Leader of the Ukraine.....which everyone both in Russia and the Ukraine got a good laugh about.

Putin was counting upon Yanukovych to prevent the Ukraine from bringing in American Energy Giant Exxon-Mobil to do TEST DRILLING IN THE CRIMEA!!!

Putin had ordered the Russian Test Drillers to tell the Ukrainian Government that there was very little Natural Gas in the Crimea and that it was not even worth spending the additional money to continue test driling at all locations and this WAS A LIE!!!

Exxon Mobile came in after Yanukovych left office and determined that the Crimea held at a MINIMUM over 6000 TIMES the amount of Natural Gas that Russian Test Drilling Teams claimed existed.

Putin was of course counting on Yanukovych to make sure that the Ukraine would not bring in High Tech. Exxon-Mobile Drilling Teams and with such High Tech. American Natural Gas Location Methods the Ukraine could within 4 to 6 Months have ready the ability to use their own massive and complex Natural Gas Pipeline which at the time as well as now was pumping Russian Natural Gas to Europe.

With Yanukovych gone and with Exxon-Mobile the Ukraine could underbid Russian Natural Gas Prices and then use their own Ukrainian Natural gas Pipeline and replace Russia as Europe's #1 Supplier of Natural Gas.

Very soon after the Sochi Winter Olympics ended and the fact that Yanukovych just abandoned his office of Leadership in the Ukraine as well the declaration by the Ukrainian Government that the Russian Test Drilling Teams had LIED greatly embarrassed Putin.

Putin has always reacted poorly when confronted with embarrassment and he started sending in Spetsnaz in numbers and because I have trained with them as I watched the News I could see and tell which men dressed in camo Uniforms without any Insignias or rank on them as well as their general physical conditioning were the members of Spetsnaz who were paying large sums of money to Russian Speaking Crimean's to create an issue that did not even exist!!!

The annexation of the Crimea was all about CRIMEAN NATURAL GAS RESERVES AND THE INTENTION OF THE UKRAINE TO USE EXXON-MOBILE TO VERY QUICKLY SET UP DRILLING PLATFORMS AND STATIONS AND WITHIN 6 MONTHS HAVE READY ENOUGH NATURAL GAS TO UNDERCUT RUSSIAN NATURAL GAS PRICES AND USE THEIR OWN UKRAINIAN NATRAL GAS PIPELINE TO REPLACE RUSSIA AS EUROPE'S #1 SUPPLIER OF NATURAL GAS!!!

THAT IS THE REASON WHY PUTIN MADE CERTAIN THAT THE CRIMEA BY ANNEXATION COULD NOT BE THE SOURCE OF THE END OF RUSSIA'S MONOPOLY ON NATURAL GAS EXPORTS TO EUROPE!!

AboveAlpha

 

I can paint with that brush because I have been reading the MSM for decades, and I understand how they work and who they serve. It is not difficult to see it in action--pure propaganda.

 

and Russian media is NOT propaganda?

lol!!!!

 

Of course it is. I've never said otherwise.

The thread title is MH17, and on this particular issue the Russians are much closer to the truth than the US.

I judge things on a case by case basis. MH17 was brought down by something other than a BUK, most likely cannon fire and an air missile.

 

No, Russia is much further from the truth.

they suspect an evil conspiracy to frame Russia.

America suspects the rebels made a mistake.

 

I have news for you, Ukraine is run by different mafia families. The Yanukovich family was supported by the majority of people in Eastern and Southern Ukraine...and they spoke Russian, went to school in Russia, married Russians and traded with Russia. He wasn't liked by the other mafia familes such as Tymoshenko, Poroshenko, Kalomoisky, Yatsenuk, etc., so Washington and Berlin used them for their own self serving and nefarious intentions. They deceived the Western Ukrainians protesters by putting in one group of criminals for another group...The people were being paid to stay at Maidan until the government was overthrown.

It's been proven that the snipers were located in the Ukraina Hotel which was occupied by the Maidan terrorists. They were shooting both police and protesters in order to create anarchy...and you know it.

They signed a deal saying that Yanukovich would remain in office until December when elections could be held, but his life was threatened six hours later by the Right Sector Nazis, as were the other members of the Rada and they were forced to flee...as you well know. As Friedman of Stratfor said it was the most blatant coup in history. Of course it was immediately recognized by Washington since signed agreements mean nothing. They can do as they please, after all aren't they gods, the exceptional and indispensable people?.

And there we are again, turning black into white, and white into black. Vladimir Putin was up all night trying to save Yanukovich's life while he tried to escape Ukraine and an assassination attempt on his life. As long as Yanukovich was alive, he remained the legal president of Ukraine. Hey Alpha, you're losing all credibility here.

Oh then it wasn't the Right Sector and the American paid protesters and criminal oligarchs from Western Ukraine that wanted him out, it was Vladimir Putin? You are getting more and more interesting here. What Putin was mad at, was that Yanukovich should have given the Berkut police orders to shoot at the protesters, but he didn't have the heart. Instead he allowed the Right Sector Nazis to beat and set the police on fire.

Next thing you'll be saying is he had him hung at the village square, and replaced him with a dummy. Keep it up Alpha!

Well I guess then you don't believe in signed agreements, only in force and intimidation. Interesting!

Putin didn't want to have its Black Sea Fleet, its Eastern Mediterranean Fleet and its oil flows from Central Asia as well as its national security threatened with a Nato base in the Crimea. A little logic here. ..something the idiots in Washington are lacking.

Besides ninety six percent of the people of Crimea voted to be with Russia. They knew that if the Right Sector came in, they would start exterminating and ethnically cleansing the people because of their historic relationship with Russia..as they're doing in the Donbass. But then again as we all know, the sociopaths in our government could care less for human rights. To them anyone who doesn't serve their interests is dispensible. Coups to them are a convenient tool, and they can always be covered up with lies and propaganda.

I must admit what you wrote is not all fairy tales....There's a lot paranoia and projection in it as well.

 

On the day that it happened, the US Government and its lapdog media were ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that it was the Russian-backed rebels. Absolutely certain, there was no doubt at all.

Of course the Russians quickly provided radar data from their system while the US and Kiev provided ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but rhetoric and flaming statements. The US and Kiev provided no records at all to back up their claims, only some contrived psychobabble on Facebook that the rebels supposedly said.

Pure propaganda from the West, radar records and rational statements from Russia.

Gosh, who to believe?

 

You and any member here can Google or run an Internet Search on what the Crimean Newspapers and Media which included Crimean Opinion Polls on what Russian Speaking Crimean's thought about Yanukovych after what he did and after he COWARDLY ABANDONED HIS POST OF UKRAINAIAN LEADERSHIP!!!

THEY ALL WANTED HIM BROUGHT BACK FOR TRIAL IN THE UKRAINE!!!

The Crimean's HATED Yanukovych for what he did!!!

And so did Putin!!

AboveAlpha

 

CANNON FIRE???

AN AIR MISSILE??? PERHAPS YOU MEAN AIR TO AIR MISSILE???

IMPOSSIBLE!!!

THE MH17 BOEING 777 WAS TRAVELING AT 33,000 FEET AT 550 MPH!!!

THERE IS NO CANNON IN THE WORLD THAT COULD REACH THAT ALTITUTE AND TRACK AN AIRCRAFT FLYING AT THAT VELOCITY!!!

The Boeing 777 has THE LARGEST AND MOST DURABLE ENGINES EVER MADE!!!

Even if a Mig-29 or Su-30 shot an Air to Air Missile and it hit one of the Boeing 777's engines...the Boeing 777 WOULD STILL BE FLYING!!!

A BUK took it down.

AboveAlpha

 

As I have stated many times....this area of the world is SATURATED by U.S. Satellite Surveillance!!!!

The Russian's or Ukrainian's or Seperatists COULD NOT SHOOT OFF A BOTTLE ROCKET WITHOUT THE U.S. KNOWING ABOUT IT!!!

But where the Seperatists and Spetsnaz REALLY SCREWED UP was DISCUSSING THE ACCIDENTAL MH17 SHOOTDOWN VIA CELL PHONES AND RADIO COMMUNICATIONS!!!

The NSA records every single BIT of Electronic Data Communication on and above Earth and on, above and below sea and oceans!!!

Just to show just how SERIOUS and CONCERNED Russia is about NSA capabilities....and ANY MEMBER CAN LOOK UP WHAT I AM ABOUT TO POST AS IT IS A FACT.....Putin and the FSB were so concerned that the American NSA's capabilities could penetrate the GRU, FSB, the Kremlin and other Russian Classified Data that the FSB REMOVED ALL COMPUTERS AND WORD PROCESSORS FROM ALL RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS AND REPLACED THEM WITH STANDARD NON-ELECTRIC TYPEWRITERS!!!

Thus all Classified Secret Material is HAND TYPED AND STORED IN PHYSICAL FILES!!!

Putin made a statement that the Vast Capability of the American NSA COULD NOT BE UNDERSTATED OR UNDERESTIMATED!!!

Putin had a near FIT....when he was told by his close advisors that the Crimean Seperatists communicated via cell phones and radio to a Spetsnaz General who himself communicated the admision by the Seperatists they accidentally shot down MH17 to the Russian High Military Brass.

ALL OF THIS WAS PICKED UP AND DECODED AS NSA DECRIPTION CAPABILITY BOARDERS UPON MAGIC AND WAS RECORDED AND STORED!!!

It took a U.S. Presidential Executive Order for the NSA to release the actual recordings and transcrips.

The U.S. Military, NSA, CYBER COMMAND, CYBER COMMAND CONTRACTORS, SPACE COMMAND, CIA...etc....have full knowledge of where the BUK was launched and we even KNOW WHO LAUNCHED IT AND HOW SUCH A HORRIBLE MISTAKE WAS MADE!!!

Putin was getting HEAT from the United States as we told him through back channels WE KNEW that Russian Spetsnaz were acting as advisors in the Crimea and that as well there were large numbers of Spetsnaz in a swath of the Ukraine along the Western Black Sea Shoreline from Russia to the Crimea as this was Putin's next step...to have Spetsnaz pay large sums of American Cash to Russian Speaking Ukrainian's to once again promote the idea that the Seperatists along this swath of the Ukraine were being attacked.

This would allow Putin to annex a corridor of the Ukraine that would connect Russia to the Crimea by land.

WE STOPPED THIS!!!

Putin then told Spetsnaz to stop working directly with Seperatist Units as the U.S. Satellite Detection Capabilities can visually detect individuals while the NSA can monitor all communication no matter how well encrypted it is.

When the members of Spetsnaz were no longer working with the Seperatists in the BUK SAM's....the Seperatists WERE NOWHERE CLOSE TO BEING TRAINED WELL ENOUGH TO USE THOSE BUK SAM LAUNCHERS!!!

They were CLUELESS and Putin should have ordered the removal back to Russia of the BUK SAM's.

The Seperatists were being POUNDED for several day's by Ukrainian Su-25's set up for GROUND ATTACK AND TROOP SUPPORT ROLES.

Some IDIOT SEPERATIST who could not tell the difference between a Su-25 and a Boeing 777 Passenger Aircraft flying at 33,000 feet at 550 mph shot the 777 down!!!

The U.S. knows where the BUK Missile was launched from...who launched it....where all the Ukrainian Jets were in the air or on the ground....where any Ukrainian or Seperatist Ground to Air Missile Systems were....we know EVERYTHING about what happened and why!!!

If any member here actually thinks the NSA and U.S. Military Missile Defense IR-Light Launch Detection Systems and all the multitudes of other U.S. Missile Lanch Detection Systems didn't IMMEDIATELY KNOW WHO SHOT WHAT FROM WHERE.....then such a member is fooling themself!!!

AboveAlpha

 

What kind of link do you want to have as source about MH17? Something like this for example?

http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/upload...3acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf

Or this?

http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17...down-ukraine-air-force-antonov-26-at-july-14/

and here this comment out of it, in content full truth:

Oh wait … sorry I forgot! These are of course no serious sources, particularly not if contradict the own opinion that all is a lie and full of conspiracy.
And this Dutch link to official report is looking like done by CIA as it was told like despised too by another person right here …

So what kind of source, evidence and proof … or simply link to shall I deliver and more important: why when it is just before I do clear that it will be fought as a lie etc.?

Maybe even if a Western report simply tell that 1+1=2, I have to give a link about?

------

That is for you a source? No substance and not even worth to waste paper to print out … and what I have written before: One conspiracy guy quotes the other one and then it becomes suddenly a serious source that the evil US government is behind everything! Nice try… but utterly failed!

But again and what I have still written several times:

For me is Russia not the bad guy and the occupation of Crimean Peninsula is for me totally OK and nothings speaks for me against!
But here with MH17 it was a bad mistake of human and/ or technical error of Russian Rebels … but no intention! For me it is proofed and nothing against this what is shown is convincing! Only bad claims, and brain constructions of like a puzzle to show that the evil West is behind. This includes ridiculous claims that all Western are part of the conspiracy here.
Things like Nazis were part of BND when build up after WW-2 to disproof the BND as source at all are simply ridiculous!

 

It wasn't on purpose nor was it a Technical Error by the Crimean Seperatists who were operating the BUK SAM LAUNCHER.

IT'S WAS GROSS NEGLIGENCE AND A LACK OF TRAINING!!!

The BUK is not like some High Tech. U.S. Ground to Air Missile like an Improved Patriot II Anti-Aircraft...Anti-Missile Missile System.

The BUK is very rudimentary and requires a Human Being to be trained to know and understand what the Radar Return is telling them thus a person needs a LOT of training to know what type of aircraft is incomming...how fast....how high...etc.

An American Improved Patriot II would tell the operator what kind of a Jet it is or if it was an Incomming Missile and tell the operator WHO'S PLANE it was as we would know if it was a Ukrainian Su-25 or a Russian Su-25.

Now Putin and Spetsnaz is a fault here as the BUK is not a system any Seperatist is going to be able to learn how to properly operate and understand and interpret the Radar Return after a few weeks or even few months of training.

The Crimean Seperatists HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE SHOOTING AT!!!

And you don't give a loaded gun to a 3 year old!!!

AboveAlpha