The Book of Revelation Unlocked

Hmmm,...
Remember that Christ had come to Egypt which totally converted to Christianity during the 4th century.

Isaiah 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt (through apostle Mark): and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

By the middle of the fourth century, Egypt was largely a Christian country. In 324 the ecumenical Council of Nicea established the patriarchate of Alexandria as second only to that of Rome; its jurisdiction extended over Egypt and Libya. The patriarchate had a profound influence on the early development of the Christian church because it helped to clarify belief and to formulate dogmas. In 333 the number of Egyptian bishops was estimated at nearly 100.

http://countrystudies.us/egypt/14.htm

 

So, why did Jesus make Paul a prophet to the Gentiles?

Are you claiming that Jesus was not representing himself as the prophesied messiah to the Samaritan women?

 

Rules of debate - http://homepage.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/debate1.htm

Extract - 5. He who asserts must prove. In order to establish an assertion, the team must support it with enough evidence and logic to convince an intelligent but previously uninformed person that it is more reasonable to believe the assertion than to disbelieve it. Facts must be accurate. Visual materials are permissible, and once introduced, they become available for the opponents' use if desired.

I have not asked for logic of the poster, I merely made a statement that saying "Because they don't have the holy spirit" is a cop out, it is no different to a person saying "Because they don't have Atheism" . .the poster replied with "This is just your opinion." which is a Subjectivist Fallacy. The poster made no effort to substantiate their opinion regardless of the level of confidence or ability they have.

 

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

 

The Pope was a Parish Priest so of course he preached for many years.

In Matthew 24 Jesus is using Tanakh theology, not Christian. Much of what he says is from the Tanakh.
And John, the Jew, also used a lot of the Tanakh in his Revelation. Much of it fits is with the last days in Jewish eschatology adapted to Christian doctrine.

Revelation 7 goes on that a great multitude - not just the Jews - will be saved from Tribulation.

There are many interpretations of Revelation. NO-ONE knows what it means, or if it means anything. To say they do is pure nonsense.

The number of 'Spirit revealed' interpretations proves that.

 

Right.
The Great Tribulation, as it is historically reported, occurred in 303-313AD:

In 380AD, Emperor Theo I recognized that "the sign of the son of man" had appeared to Constantine, and all the Roman World would by Law become Christian, and all other religions disappeared.

Matt. 24:40 Then, (in the establishment of The New Jerusalem by Edict of Theo I) shall two (people) be in the field (one preaching denominational Christianity, the other paganism); the one (who has faith in Christ) shall be taken (into the new paradigm of Christianity), and the other left.

Matt. 24:41 Two women shall be (routinely) grinding at the (old) mill, (one preaching Christianity, the other paganism); the one shall be taken (into the new paradigm), and the other left.

 

I disagree. Jesus is referring to the end of the age. The Great a Tribulation precedes his return as lord.

 

Right.
And the person who wants to set up the image "doeth great wonders" and is "a beast had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon," NOT some anti-Christ.

 

Babbling stuff that has nothing to do with my comments is not a response to much.

 

Fundamentalists have always been infatuated with Revelations, and in my long life I have heard a plethora of interpretations with most claiming that the final days were here. So far, everyone of these men who claimed knowledge given by the holy spirit have been wrong. And they will continue to be wrong, but that fact will not stop them coming.

The bible does not state what sort of language is being used, literal, allegorical, metaphorical, symbolic, etc. And so it lends itself to be interpreted in various ways, which is what created over 500 different denominations in Christianity. With each claiming to know the fact of the matter.

I think what Lao Tzu said is very pertinent... "the man who says he knows, does not know". So take what those claim on this thread as fact, to be nothing more than mere conjecture, with all of it being false. If they claim they KNOW that is.

With that said, I do not know (*)(*)(*)(*). And neither does anyone else.

 

1: Are those rules incorporated into the rules of this forum as a standard to which members are expected to use as a standard in conducting their discussions? No? Then they are irrelevant to this forum. This forum uses as a standard, discussion which leads to and contains 'civil' discussion, along with the tentative other rules established by the site owner and likely in conjunction with others that might have had some input into the development of those rules.

2: In the very opening statement of those rules you have sited, there is the mention of 'teams'. I am not aware of any formal teams that have been developed in, or endorsed by the administration of this forum.

3: the rule 3 (from your source) ventures into the use of 'policy'. What specific 'policy' is used in the discussions on this forum?

4: The rule 5 (again from your source) states that "[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]He who asserts must prove." Shall we really venture into the many assertions that have been made by both Theists and non-theists on this forum, which have not been 'proven'?

5: How is a 'fact' determined to be accurate? A fact can be as simple as 'something believed to be true or real.' So, by who and by what means is a 'belief' to be determined to be 'accurate'?

6: If you are not asking for someone to use logic, then why are you even bringing up the subject of someones statement being in violation of some logical fallacy. IMHO, that is an inference which demands that the other person use 'logic' and avoid 'logical fallacies'.

7: The term 'subjectivist' is related to the term "subjectivism" and as such is recognized only as "[/FONT]
3. Any of various theories holding that the only valid standard of judgment is that of the individual. For example, ethical subjectivism holds that individual conscience is the only appropriate standard for moral judgment." So, in accord with that definition, are you suggesting that some people might not hold a valid standard of judgment? If so, then where are the facts that support that claim?

I believe that God is real and that He exists in a form not recognizable to the 5 natural senses of man. When someone is expressing a 'belief', show me the requirement that a 'belief' be justified by some "substantiation"?

 

1. Did He make Paul a prophet? Did God make Mohammed a prophet? Did God make Moses a prophet?
Did God call Brigham Young?
How many hear 'God' calling them to kill someone today.
2. Jesus was using the Hebrew interpretation as the 'anointed one'. This can be applied to other prophets 'anointed' by God to be used by him. Jesus was a Jew. His learning was Jewish and he felt he was called to preach to Israel.

 

Because religion is retarded

 

Such are opinions as opinions go.

 

Jesus came to Paul after his death. He came in his glory and blinded Paul. He sent Paul to be healed before preaching to the Gentiles.

 

Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil, (that animus of the anti-Chris: [John 8:44]), shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have (for 2 years, at the hand of Nero, followed by) tribulation Ten Years (by Diocletian, in 303-313 AD): be thou faithful unto (a martyr's) death, and I will give thee a crown of (religious Christian) life (for 1000 years of Universal Roman Christianity).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_3rd_century

The era of coexistence ended when Diocletian launched the final and "Great" Persecution in 303.
Seeing Christianity as a threat to Roman state religion and thus to the unity of the empire, Diocletian launched a violent persecution of Christians.
In 303 Emperor Diocletian issued a decree ordering all churches demolished, all sacred books burned, and all Christians who were not officials made slaves.

 

Again, Jesus return comes just after a tribulation that had he not come, no flesh would have been saved. This cannot be the case with a tribulation in 303.

 

HHebrew was the original language of Revelation.

Revelation was actually written 200 years BEFORE Jesus.
It was an ancient Hebrew propecy.
Jesus added the first three chapters and made what Rabbi now agree was some other words , like the lamb, etc to the rest of the text.

But Jewish students study Revelation as a totally Jewish prophecy explanation:

SEE: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12712-revelation-book-of

Jewish Origin.
*The last book in the New Testament canon, yet in fact one of the oldest; probably the only Judeao-Christian work which has survived the Paulinian transformation of the Church.

 

Jesus did come EXACTLY after the Great Tribulation.

Matt. 24:30 And then, (hearlding the end of pagan myth [Zech 13:2], and astrological worship: [Rev. 6:12-17]), shall appear (in the clouds, [1Thes 4:16], to Constantine and 12,000 soldiers:...

... [As reported to us by the historian Eusibius]), the sign, (The Cross), of the Son of man, [Matt 26:64]), in heaven, (ushering forth the new paradigm of monotheistic Hebrew Christianity):

 

Paul was blinded alright. Blinded to the teachings of Jesus. His brain was blinded so much that he contradicts the teachings of Jesus in many places and makes up a bunch of new stuff.

James - leader of the Jerusalem Church and brother of Jesus_ was so upset by the "Sola Fide" doctrine being spread by Pauline Christians that he worte a letter calling these folks Fools.

Perhaps Paul had good intent but he said some wacky things that were clearly not from Jesus.

Romans 13:

So we were wrong to go against Hitler and folks like Pol Pot because these are Gods servants doing Gods work ?

Clearly Paul was trying to soften the Romans towards Christianity in this passage which is a smart move on his part.

To suggest that this has anything to do with God's actual will is silliness.

 

Nothing you have presented testifies to him returning in the clouds and effecting the first resurrection back in 303. The first resurrection occurs at the day of The Lord when the world is left lifeless and void. This clearly did not happen in 303.

 

The Church is divided into a dozen denominations just as the walls of the New Jerusalem explain:

Rev. 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious (Christian) stones. The first foundation was (THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH) jasper; the second, (ORTHODOX EASTERN CATHOLIC CHURCH), sapphire; the third, (LUTHERANS), a chalcedony; the fourth, (EPISCOPALIANS), an emerald;

Rev. 21:20 The fifth, (PRESBYTERIANS), sardonyx; the sixth, (METHODISTS), sardius; the seventh, (THE BAPTISTS), chrysolite; the eighth, (CHURCH OF CHRIST'S DISCIPLES), beryl; the ninth, (UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST), a topaz; the tenth, (LATTER-DAY-SAINTS AND MORMONS), a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, (PENTECOSTALS), a jacinth; the twelfth, (JEHOVAH WITNESSES), an amethyst.

This makes much sense, psychologically, because today we know about Learning Styles.
A dozen different basic Learning Styles means that 12 different basic understandings of scripture could be expected.

 

I'm trouble by these versus as well. Yet, they are included in the bible. Were they of Jesus? I don't know. I personally, do not accept all versus as directly from God. I believe many versus are personal ad-lib mixed with inspired revelations. I can only use my God given discernment to understand the Bible and Gods will.

This is why I do not accept modern doctrines on eternal torture, the rapture or tithing.

 

Oh Stop it. Jesus coming in the clouds does not refer to Constantine's vision. A vision which Eusebius made up after the fact. His first account had no vision.

There were no "Stars falling from the Sky"
There were no "heavenly bodies shaken"

There was no one other than Constantine that saw the vision and from the evidence even Constantine did not have this vision. All peoples of the earth did not see Jesus coming in the clouds.

Give us a break from your cherry picking passages and taking them completely out of context in hopes of making them fit into your pre ordained belief system.

This prophecy was supposed to happen in the lifetime of the people Jesus was speaking to. It didn't happen.

 

Hmmm,... Constantine an his 12,000 soldiers saw "the sign of the son of man coming in the clouds."
That was a very definite prophecy which same true and is part of recorded history.

In 313 AD, Constantine DID write an Edict of Toleration which stopped the martyrdom the Great Tribulation.
And, in 380AD, all the Roman World went "lifeless and void" of he previous paganism, when Theo I ruled that ONLY Christianity could exist:

Rev. 20:4
And I saw thrones (of Universal Christian authority) and they, (the 144,000 monks of Catholic monasticism: [Rev14:4]), sat upon them (Christianity mandated as the ONLY legal religion in the Empire, in 380AD), and (theocratic) judgment was given unto them (in the days of Catholic Monasticism):
and I saw, (visions), the souls, (the spirit-like psyches), of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, (Old Testament and New), and which had not worshiped (by participation in the paganistic practices and sexual excesses fueling) the beast (of the Roman economic system which had been based upon selfish self-interest), neither his image(on his coinage), neither had received his mark (of ledgered accounts recorded) upon their foreheads, or in (wages in) their hands; and they lived (as angels in the minds of Christians who have followed, these beheaded saints, in the memories of congregations who worshipped in churches built upon the bones of their remains)...
.... and (they) reigned (in Monasticism) with Christ a thousand years, (from 54 AD upon the appearance of the Holy Comforter, until 1054 AD with the first Schism of Greek Orthodoxy).