When you do not live in a peasant village with upper Egyptian mentality then to be honest it does not affect you. The Christians I know all do their own thing.They go to church. The fast half the year. They celebrate feasts with us and we with them. Where we live it is not an issue at all. They visit mosques and there was a trip they all took with both Muslims and Copts and they all spent the day visiting old Cairo mosques and churches last year. Both Christian and Muslim friends together. I have mixed religion friends who are Christian and Muslims married to each other and there is absolutely no problem at all. My neioghbours are Copts and Muslims and religion doesn't even come up in conversation. That's because it is not relevant. The only time we actually did mention it was during the revolution where the banner was put between the church and the mosque in Alex where the bomb went off. People never mention that the Muslim man died in that bombing. The Muslim bead seller sitting outside the mosque directly opposite the church door. I know you would love to believe there is hatred and friction between us but the reality there is not. Community relations where I live are very good. During the insecurity and the release of the prisoners where we were under threat from them it was the central mosque where we lived that called all the residents to a meeting where we discussed security. It was filled with Copts and Muslims all sitting there in the Mosque discussing how we could protect our homes property and families if they came to our place. Copts and Muslims all worked together from that mosque co ordinating shifts to help security. There were no bishops, or priests I saw. Only Copt residents and Muslims residents and the Imams organising it. That's the reality. oh and to add there were male ex pat Christians there in the mosque with us too. My neighbour who is German was there with others.
AFAI understand , no Jews /Muslims/Hindus/polyteists, - mainly Anglican with a few Catholics and perhaps , a pre-christian Pagan or two. I was told grandad was born in a village abt 6 miles from Avebury stones . http://www.avebury-stones.co.uk/ as you can see our christian ancestors werent averse to destroying ancient pagan places of worship either, (wink) ..
Abu sin , I think its fair to say that ALL the world's great religions teach/preech much the same principles ,some of the "adherents" do not always ADHERE , I put it down to the nature of the beast - although religious teachings have had a degree of success in taming the beast , its often distorted to inflame dissensions. ===== There'll always kooks like Yama, with tunnel vision , sitting at a keyboard trying to sound knowledgeable, spouting cartloads of bull shine. . cheers .
Ok so your anaology was essentially incorrect in that respect. No, that was the third of three theories and I tend to believe in the first and that your Christian ancestors at the time had little idea about the stones being pagan, not that they weren't intolerant of other beliefs, pagan or otherwise.
Well you couldn't be more wrong, I'm happy to hear of positive community relations. However it does seem strange that your Christian friends have little interest for relations between their fellow Christians and their Muslim neighbours in another part of the country. The reality is that such ethnic/religious conflict can ignite and spread rapidly within a country especially in uneasy post revolutionary times.
My Christian and Muslim friends in Ramallah told me that for years and years they got along... They were neighbors and all the kids played together. Don't know about now as I have lost track.
Señor, yo no sé , for now I'm more inclined to go along with our present day "keepers of the stones " the Druids - who I suspect know much more abt the subject than you or I. A small group of abt a dozen or two , gather there seasonally to celebrate their ceremonies, Sorry, there are no chickens or blood sacrifices. cheers.
Margot , while I've of course several Muslims , but most who've remain in contact + become friends , are Christians., while one said he didnt feel comfortable with muslims, the rest was more positive in their attitudes by mixing socially with muslims. see : [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QHzuYcuIQY"]‪Christians in Palestine‬‏ - YouTube[/ame] cheers.
Religious folk usually make poor historians when it comes to their own religion. I can believe Christian clergy connected them with paganism but the people doing the work would have been unlikely to use the stones as building material if they had believed it was of Pagan origin. That was a couple of centuries ago, with earlier destruction in the 14th century the stones were buried and most likely believed to have been erected by the devil or mythical giants and not humans, pagan or otherwise. I say this because it is a common notion with other grand prehistoric works and odd naturally occurring geological formations. Btw. I was invited to a birthday by a druid couple on the arrival of their baby. I gratiously declined staying for dinner though when I realised it wasn't a cake with candles but roasted afterbirth being served!
i don't find it contradicting. it all depends on the point of view! so it can be described by both phrased without being misleading
How about saying he was born into a montheist world then, would that be an ok point of view and not contradict the other two statements?
i don't think it is contradicting statement, though, i don't see it as valid point of view, or i can't see how it can describe the picture of the time
Tyrerik , I know this is Off-Topic , however if you've no objection and sufficiently interested , I'll continue . (wink) I'll just ignore that BS abt roasted afterbirth - I DO NOT believe you I'm afraid on the subject of Pre-christian Celtic beliefs far too many so-called " christians " have proved to be dishonest + diabolical liars. . If as you surmise 14th Century stones were "buried " then our archaeologists would have found it, large stones DO NOT DISAPPEAR . The stones were all still in situ during Roman times , Some stones were later cut up and used . .. The modern English word druid derives from the Latin druides , , which itself was considered by ancient Roman writers to come from the native Celtic Gaulish word for Priests , From the 18th century, England and Wales experienced a revival of interest in the druids. John Aubrey (16261697) had been the first modern writer to connect Stonehenge and other megalithic monuments with the druids' There's a prodigious amount of rubbish has been written about druidism"; Neo-druidism has nevertheless continued to shape public perceptions of the historical druids. The British Museum is blunt: Modern Druids(Neo-Druids) have no direct connection to the Druids of the Iron Age. Many of our popular ideas about the Druids are based on the misunderstandings and misconceptions of scholars 200 years ago. These ideas have been superseded by later study and discoveries. MORE to chew on : ".Avebury's Destruction For over a thousand years the Avebury earthwork lay forgotten and fell into disrepair. During the time of the Roman occupation of Britain the circles were virtually complete but were extremely overgrown. It was during the 6th Century AD that the Saxons began to build their homes inside the circle. They called it Weala-dic meaning 'Ditch of the Britons' and in the 10th Century they built a church just outside the Pagan temple. Finally, in the 13th Century the Christian church, having established itself, decided that the Pagan symbols on their doorstep were no longer tolerable and decreed that every single stone of the monument had to be torn down and destroyed. However, the people of Avebury did not actually destroy the stones, but rather buried them, which ironically saved the monument until they could be excavated. The removal and toppling of the stones eventually ended after a tragic accident took place. A barber-surgeon was helping to topple a stone when he slipped at the exact moment that the stone fell. He was fatally trapped under the stone. He lay for 600 years in the grave he helped to make. In modern times the stone was lifted and his body was discovered along with various implements which identified him as a barber. Today the stone has been restored to its former place and has been named the Barber's Stone, standing in the southwest circle. During the second half of the 17th Century the clearance of the area began, so that the land could be cultivated. It was at this stage that some of the sarsens were physically destroyed, by being broken into pieces. A special technique had to be devised because....................... READ MORE .. BBC Guide http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1150381 cheers. I hope after watch the 3rd episode, we can return ON TOPIC - Life of Muhammed. Cheers. -
OK so you find no contradiction in the two statements: Mohammed was born into a polytheist world. and Mohammed was born into a monotheist world. Which makes no sense to me.
Not quite sure what to make of your post. What exactly dont you believe? I never made any pretence of knowing about pre-christian Celtic beliefs and I am not a Christian of any kind, so-called or otherwise. The couple I mentioned were known locally as Druids but I dont know whether they considered themselves priests or not or actually Druids or not come to think of it, although they didnt seem to mind being called Druids. Strictly speaking I dont even know whether eating afterbirth was part of them being Druids or not. It was while I was living for a brief time in south Wales where there were all kinds of different new age people. Your own post mentions stones being buried one on top of a barber so I dont know why you should think they havent been found? Btw Ive been to Avebury, Stone Henge and climbed Silbury Hill so I have had something to chew on already thank you.
Your earlie post : A ) It was during the 6th Century AD that the Saxons began to build their homes inside the circle. They called it Weala-dic meaning 'Ditch of the Britons' and in the 10th Century they built a church just outside the Pagan temple. Finally, in the 13th Century the Christian church, having established itself, decided that the Pagan symbols on their doorstep were no longer tolerable and decreed that every single stone of the monument had to be torn down and destroyed. However, the people of Avebury did not actually destroy the stones, but rather buried them, which ironically saved the monument until they could be excavated. A) - I repeat "It was during the 6th Century AD that the Saxons began to build their homes inside the circle. They called it Weala-dic meaning 'Ditch of the Britons' and in the 10th Century they built a church just outside the Pagan temple. Finally, in the 13th Century the Christian church, having established itself, decided that the Pagan symbols on their doorstep were no longer tolerable and decreed that every single stone of the monument had to be torn down and destroyed. However, the people of Avebury did not actually destroy the stones, but rather buried them, which ironically saved the monument until they could be excavated. ==== B) Its strange that you now suddenly remember that you've "been to Avebury- Stonehenge etc., and not having given any such indication earlier . Hmmmm...
I think Paganism is coming back in a big way. The deists of early America virtually worshiped nature.
I still dont get the point you are trying to make. Going by your highlighting are you suggesting that the Saxons who built their houses inside the circle or centuries later a church knew about the pagan significance of the site from the days of the Druids? The name they gave the location seems to indicate otherwise. The medieval Christian church was like the Taliban in our day and saw Pagan symbols and the work of the devil everywhere quite irrespective of the actual origins. They would have freaked out by the sight of the corn circles I saw from atop Silbury Hill but then perhaps you consider them Pagan symbols too? You appear to be in agreement now that stones were buried and later excavated. Just because I didnt mention it in my first post hardly makes it strange or that I should have forgotten it in any way.
There's no evidence to indicate exactly what the Anglo Saxon at first thought of the stones, - they had their own Pagan Gods - Woden etc. However by 10th Century they'd converted to Christianity , and there's no reason to doubt that Christian Priest knew the stones Pagan significance. ---- I've never doubted that SOME were buried + located by archaeological digs in 19th century., Its one of the first lessons I learnt in childhood visits - first with my father visiting Gran who lived nearby and a later school visit. The reason I found it strange that you failed to mention yr visit coz your initial posts sounded very vague + more like waffling than from someone who actually visited Avebury stones and that daft bit about " roasted afterbirth". I've never heard such rubbish. ....
Why is there no reason to doubt that priests in the 10th century were aware of the Pagan origins of the stones thousands of years before? Do you think they also knew Silbury Hill was man made? Or how about this, man or giants?: Well it seems strange then that you replied as you did. For some reason you seem to have taken offence of mention of roasted afterbirth. I can assure you it is a perfectly true account and the basis as I understood it was that all animals (or mammals) eat it being very nutrious and so it was the natural way not to be wasted. Sorry if it turned your stomach.
Tyreik, concentrate - the subject under discussion is Avebury Stones , NOT Silbury, Giants causewy , crop or crap circles. Diversions wont improve your previous load of flannel + wafflings . .] I'm not offended - I've got broad shoulders - there's nothing you can say which would offend me.. Read my post - I called it "daft" and said "I've never heard such rubbish " .
Its not lack of concentration or adiversion but perfectly logical to look at other examples where there is a reasonable doubt as to what medieval people made of geological formations or ancient man made works with similar attributes. Now why would these people think the Giants causeway was made by mythical giants and yet be certain the Avebury Stones were erected by Pagans for worship? Same goes for Silbury Hill. Where is your evidence that these people were really capable of discerning natural geological formations from artificial ones let alone Pagan structures of worship, when there is strong evidence they couldn't in other cases? You made it sound as though I was making it up as a smear or something. Anyway if you are so shocked at hearing of this kind of "rubbish" then you are not as broadminded as would be fitting for your shoulders. Maybe this will help broaden your mind: Afterbirth: It's What's For Dinner Btw we have a Cassandra here....
Who the hek is Cassandra .? according to writer(husband ?) she's one with "hippie ideas" + Sara's been on a Chinese cooking course . Hmmm. . I've read yr link - there's nothing in that article connecting such practices with Druidism-/ Neo-druism/ Celtic Pagan cults, or Avebury stones , which you implied when you introduced it into this discussion. Your words : .. btw - how abt getting back ON TOPIC ? Did you manage to watch the 3rd final episode of BBC's Life of Muhammed ? ....
