i think you missed the whole story, i am completely neutral to that, and in fact, i will be more pleased with Arabia more christians and jewish than Pagan! Arabian tribes had a tradition of nomadism, Arabia was not completely arid, there are scattered oasis, but these people, who live in centre were nomads, or half nomads. up till last century, they are so numerous that they managed to create a country, Saudi Arabia, beating and occupying sedentary people around arabia! i think that goes more with bedouin population being more in any case, Christians were massacred by Pagans as what i understood from Marlowe! the question here is what is your historical basis to say that christianity was flourishing? how many christians do you think there was (percentage) was arabia an overwhelmingly/majority/vast majoriy christian or Pagan you said things contrary to general belief, and i am interested to learn unfortunately you whole message, brings no further knowledge i am sitting on the student chair, and waiting for a good history lesson
Well, by the Muslim people's own admission, he was illiterate, married a child-bride (against her will) and lead at attack on a holy city. I haven't seen it yet, but as long as they stick to the facts, I'm sure it will be fine.
Nice dodge! By the way, you don't have any Muslim friends, because Muslims are forbidden from being friends with unbelievers, and I know (*)(*)(*)(*) well you don't have any Jewish friends either. Hence, more lies.
Uhm heres a novel idea. Instead of constantly making a fool out of yourself, why dont you try to rebut me instead of issuing infantile snide remarks intended to insult? In addition, if I were half as ignorant of the history of Israel and Islam as you are. The last place I would be is on a forum trying to debate subjects I dont have the first clue about. Indeed, how do you know my posts arent correct when it couldnt be any more obvious that you dont have the first (*)(*)(*)(*) clue? Indeed, if I dont know anything about Arabs, Muslims, or whatever, then, by all means, prove it! Demonstrate how erudite you are I could use the laugh.
Where's the worldwide Muslim outrage, protest, and the beheaded kafir infidel unbelievers? They're absent for a reason and that reason is because this documentary is a whitewash. Indeed, show one Muhammad cartoon and Muslims riot around the world for weeks and murder innocent kafir infidel unbelievers. Show a documentary of Muhammad's life on the BBC and all of a sudden the Islamic world is well behaved. Yeah right! Give me a break...you guys live to be gullible.
The issue isn’t a whole story, simply whether a simple statement reflects the truth that’s all. I’m neutral too, more so than you since I am not more or less pleased by either result. Saudi and Arabia are not synonymous although Saudi comprises the majority of the landmass. History demonstrates that it is not simply numbers that gives military power. Both Mohammed and Ibn Saud managed to unite otherwise warring tribes and in so doing were able to exploit the considerable military prowess of these people disproportionate to their numbers. Nomadic people’s mobile capability lends itself to offensive blitzkrieg military tactics. This is not unknown, another example being Genghis Khan uniting the Turkic and Mogol nomadic tribes resulting in the largest contiguous empire in the history of the world in a very short period of time. So it wasn’t on the basis of their numbers that the Sauds managed to create a country. No I didn’t claim that Christianity was flourishing only that it wasn’t in decline as you suggested. I have very little idea of the percentage of Christians other than what can be inferred from what I have written. I don’t see a basis for thinking Arabia was overwhelmingly Christian, Jewish or pagan but a mixture. In any case you have rejected the notion of mere numbers determining this issue, remember Shia babies are still born into a Sunni world in Bahrain according to you. Where have I stated anything that goes against what is generally believed? Quote please. I am not seeking to educate you!
You're lying again. Perhaps I should ask my Muslim friends why they are breaking their avowed intent-according to you-to wage 'global stealth genocidal Jihad', and kill me in the process. BTW I've showed them some of your hysterical rants and they reached the same conclusion about their content as most sane people have done.
You believe whatever you want to believe Obie, there's a good boy. All you understand is hatred; all you demonstrate is xenophobia; all you ever do is vilify, insult and condemn-and then you have the gall to presume to lecture someone else about their ignorance? As a result it is manifestly obvious that you haven't the first clue about what constitutes a debate, nor how to conduct yourself in one. Cherry-picking, as you always do, non-contextual quotes from ancient religious texts in order to convince yourself of the veracity of your position is an absurdly transparent tactic. Perhaps I should present you with an equally tenuous bunch of quotes from an equally ancient text, the Christian bible, and note your response to them. I doubt, somehow, that you would be as vociferous in your condemnation of Christian writings as you are of Islamic ones. Why, I wonder, would that be? For some strange reason the word 'bigotry' springs to mind in relation to the hate-filled attitudes demonstrated in your posts. If you expect your posts to be taken seriously in view of the aforegoing you're going to have a long, long wait. As for laughs your daily rants are pure comedy, and are responded to, and dismissed, as such.
The difference being that the poster in question appears to have made it his life's work to pour hatred and vitriol on ALL Arabs, Muslims and anyone else who argues against Israel's policies vis-a-vis Palestine. Never a single word of condemnation, nor even mild criticism of Israel is ever evident in his posts. On the contrary I have no political affiliation and attempt therefore to take a non-partisan and objective view, having weighed-up and analysed both sides of the argument. If the Palestinians misbehave then, trust me, I'll have no compunction in condemning them for it, just as I do the Israelis. Facts are facts however; Israel is an occupying power which has behaved abominably, both in its complete, arrogant disregard and dismissal as irrelevant of the laws and mechanisms of an organisation of which it is a member, and joined on condition it would agree to be bound by the laws, regulations and charter of; and in its treatment of those of a different faith and culture who happen reside within its borders.
i am confused with what you want to say, it looks like you are contradicting yourself, or being too ambiguous. Would you clarify in simple lines what you want to say? do you want to say that Arabs were mainly christians and jews?
You are not only incredibly boring but you are also a compulsive liar and a horrible one at that. The truth is you dont have any Muslim friends because Muslims are forbidden from being friends with kafir infidel unbelievers like you. Indeed, you never cease to embarrass yourself. Muhammad describes unbelievers as the vilest of animals and losers. Allah hates Christians and Jews to the extent that they are destined for eternal doom in the fires of hell as a result of their beliefs. Hence, it wouldnt make any sense for Muhammad to then recommend that they be taken in as friends by Muslims. Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell. Qur'an (3:2 - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..." This last part means that the Muslim is allowed to feign friendship if it is of benefit. Renowned scholar Ibn Kathir states that "believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly." Qur'an (3:11 - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them. Qur'an (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers" Even family members are not to be taken as friends if they do not accept Islam. (This is the mildest interpretation of this verse from the 9th Sura, which also advocates "slaying the unbeliever wherever ye find them"). Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world." Some Hadiths: Muslim (1:417) - Taken to mean that one's own relatives should not be taken as friends if they are not Muslim. Abu Dawud (41:4815) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man follows the religion of his friend; so each one should consider whom he makes his friend." Abu Dawud (41:4832) - The Messenger of Allah [said] "Do not keep company with anyone but a believer and do not let anyone eat your food but one who is pious." Bukhari (59:572) - "O you who believe! Take not my enemies And your enemies as friends offering them (Your) love even though they have disbelieved in that Truth (i.e. Allah, Prophet Muhammad and this Quran) which has come to you." Ishaq 262 - "Some Muslims remained friends with the Jews, so Allah sent down a Qur'an forbidding them to take Jews as friends. From their mouths hatred has already shown itself and what they conceal is worse" How about the above non-contextual quotes and the cherry picked Hadiths are they contextual enough for you now? How unhinged can you be? I mean Christians didnt perpetrate the 9/11 Jihadist Attacks, the 2004 Madrid Train Bombing, the 7/7 London Bombings, the Beslan Massacre, the Mumbai Jihad Attacks, the Fort Hood Massacre, or any of the many other thousands of jihadist attacks that have all been perpetrated by Muslims against unbelievers in the cause of Allah. Indeed, Christians arent waging permanent and perpetual jihad against Jewish unbelievers and all other unbelievers around the world in order to make Christianity supreme by subjugating all unbelievers into a very draconian form of Christian totalitarianism via the imposition of some non-existent equivalent Christian law. Only Muslims are. Christians are not migrating in mass to the West and other un-Islamic countries while systematically refusing to assimilate and integrate and forming Muslim no-go zones ruled by Sharia as parallel societies within societies and for the purpose of demographic conquest and to become a fifth column. Christianity doesnt severely restrict the freedom of conscience and make blasphemy and apostasy capital offenses. Only Islam does. Hence, why must you demonstrate how unhinged you are by deliberately attacking Christianity? What exactly will that prove other than you must be incredibly delusional? Indeed, what does Christianity have to do with the 9/11 Jihadist Attacks, the 2004 Madrid Train Bombings, the 7/7 London Bombings, the Beslan Massacre, the Mumbai Jihad Attacks, the Fort Hood Massacre, etc., etc., etc.? Indeed, how many hundreds of Christian no-go zones are present today throughout Europe the same way that there are hundreds of Muslim no-go zones sprinkled throughout Europe for demographic conquest and to also form subversive fifth columns? Why are you like a bigot using the actions of Muslims as an insane excuse to attack, vilify, and demonize Christians who are minding their own business and who havent attacked anyone and who are also not waging permanent and perpetual jihad against anyone around the world to make Christianity supreme and to subjugate unbelievers into totalitarianism like only Muslims are doing? I hate to rain on your idiotic, infantile, and clueless parade again, but there are no equally tenuous bunch of quotes contained in the Christian bible, as the Christian bible is the New Testament, you genius, and the New Testament doesnt contain anything that can even remotely be interpreted as urging violence. Nice try! Now, on the other hand, there are some old parables contained in the Old Testament describing warfare for sure, but, in any event, those old parables were only for a specific time, at a specific place, and against a specific people that arent even alive today. Thus, unlike the sword verses contained in Surahs 8 & 9 of the Koran that are valid for all time and that command all Muslims to wage jihad in the cause of Allah against unbelievers for the spread of Islam until Islam is supreme, the old parables contained in the Old Testament, on the other hand, dont even apply today. In fact, they havent applied for two or three thousands years and the proof in the pudding is there arent thousands of Christians and Jews perpetrating violent jihadist attacks and waging stealth and deceptive non-violent jihad today justifying their actions by citing those Old Testament parables the same way that Muslims always go out of their way to cite the texts and tenets of Islam to justify their attacks. Hence, if you feel you must demonstrate how completely unhinged you are, then by all means cite all the equally tenuous bunch of quotes contained in the Christian Bible you want. I know I sure would get a kick out of it for one. You think? Yeah right! Very apparently you are as ignorant of Christianity and Judaism as you are of Islam, and thanks for proving it.
OK. I want to say that Mohammed was born into an Arabian world of both monotheism and polytheism and leaving out the montheist element is misleading. Was that simple enough for you to understand? Do you agree or disagree? No I don't want to say that Arabs were mainly Christians and Jews and that in no way contradicts what I do want to say!
Tyrerik , I think I've said it earlier , my grandfather was born (as far as his community was concerned - in rural England ) into an ENGLISH world of Christians coz as I gather , it was of no interests/knowledge by the local community for miles around , whether there were Jews or any non-Christians in the nearest town. To most the only time they ever heard abt Jews was either confusing them with Israelites or heathens. I dare say there many similar parts of Christendom incl. rural American small towns at some time. ...
Just the usual load of OBAMOBA - BS - with its usual ad hominems, rants and adjusted plagiarised hogwash , not worth a serious response.
And you pour your hatred and vitriol on ALL Americans. The only difference is the object of your bigotry.
No, no I don't. I make no bones about my distaste regarding US foreign policy, and its fiscal policy as it resonates globally. I will also take a dig at stupidity, bigotry and ignorance wherever I find it, in America or anywhere else.
What a sad, sad hate-filled world you live in. I almost feel sorry for you. Almost. Oh, and I just checked my bible. Oddly enough it contains both new and old testaments.
He is a nut and best to be ignored. I have plenty Christian friends. In fact I spent Christmas day eating turkey and cranberries sauce last year with them This Eid they will come to my house for iftar. In fact if you come to Egypt at Eid you will see plenty ex pats Christians being invited for Eid iftar to share food and celebrate with us. Coptic Pope Shenouda statement at an Eid Iftar with Muslims last year. “Ramadan is a time of reflection and deep personal worship, which emphasises the values of humility and self-control while increasing sensitivity to the suffering of the needy,” Shenuda, whose speech triggered enormous sympathy for the needy, said that the faithful would win a higher place in paradise if they help the poor with money and treat them with love and respect everyday of the year. Addressing the iftar banquet, which was attended by top Government officials, celebrities, reporters and ordinary people, the Coptic Pontiff exhorted Muslims and Copts to seek common ground between religious values and Egyptian traditions. He said that it was wrong to behave as if Islamic and Christian values were incompatible. "They are not, as millions of devout Egyptians share the same values that call for boosting their motivation to helping the needy,” Pope Shenuda said during the iftar gathering, which coincided with his 83rd birthday. “With help from the wealthy, the poor should find happiness in Islam and Christianity, which have piety and charity at their core,” Shenuda added. “Charity and almsgiving are cornerstones of Islam and Christianity, and they should be given special importance all the time,” he urged. This will give Yamama a stroke Coptic Priests in Sudan organised a Eid Iftar and invited Muslims to it!
OK so now its boiled down to Mohammed being born into an Arabian world of both monotheism and polytheism and yet stating that the Arabia Muhammad was born into was a world of tribal loyalties and polytheistic religion is not misleading. I find that contradictory.
So what you are saying is that in the statement: the Arabia Muhammad was born into - a world of tribal loyalties and polytheistic religion, the world referred to is the local Arabian community and not Arabia. This interpretation neglects the plural "loyalties" meaning there is talk of more than Mohammed's local tribe. Going regional, we know that the tribes were not all polytheist. Now in the English rural region your grandfather was born into were there communities of Jews or polytheists?
Life of Muhammed, Killing, Robbing, Pedophilia, madness ( He thought he could be a murderer, and a child molester, and a robber, and a prophet at the same time) He has quite a list of flaws, today he would be in a mental house, and Jesus most likely be a great Waterpolo player or a poor carpenter.
Do you discuss community relations with them? If so do they agree with your general assessment, for example on Coptic women converts and Copts responsibility for stirring intercommunal strife?
