The real cancer

Enough said.

 

Nope... It is up to the Holy Spirit.

If the Holy Spirit has chosen to speak through you then you are a Prophet.

 

Glad you agree

 

Yes, I agree that it is your opinion.

 

Contradicting yourself again.

Your previous comment:
"When you speak the words that come to you from your conversations with the Holy Spirit to others, they should be taken as "inspired".

by definition."

Notice the parameter you established "by definition" . What is by definition,,, the comment preceding the parameter...." they should be taken as "inspired""

You see, that is your OPINION... not necessarily the opinion of all others that the message may be given to by any one individual.

 

Since you present no material of your own I take it you agree with my opinion !

 

You are not making any sense. It is not my opinion .. It is the definition of "inspired"

That some folks would disagree with the definition is quite possible .. "hence the term should" .

Bottom line is that you claim speak words that come directly from conversations with God.

This is blasphamy IMO .. and in the opinion of Jesus by my reading of scripture.

 

And opinion is like butt hole... everyone has one, and yours is no better than that which anyone else has. It means nothing, because you have not offered any proof of your opinion. You meant to say by your private interpretation of scripture.

 

I have given you plenty of proof .. Biblical and otherwise. You just can not handle the Truth.

If you do not like my opinion then state why. What would you like proof of ?

 

Proof? All you have given is accusations and your publicly admitted OPINIONS.

Because it is opinion and opinion like butt hole aint worth squat as far as proof is concerned.

 

Not true .. I have given you plenty of evidence from the Bible and other sources.

It is ok if you are scared to debate because you have not been successful but that is no reason to tell Fibs !

 

The subject was "proof" not evidence.

Projecting again, I see.

 

Please do not think I was in any way criticizing you nor suggesting otherwise about the term "god". I was speaking for myself that I tend not to use it for the reasons I stated earlier. Of course, the Bible is our source and I concur in what you posted in your response.

 

Thanks for clearing this up. I've not read their works so I have no opinion one way or the other about their being inspired by God nor whether their works were of substance that met the criteria of 1st Century scripture that was included. I may take time to check it out, but I'm not going to have any less belief in the Word as it now stands.

 

Some would suggest than man, in God's image, is inherently evil and being outside the Will of God results in the evil deeds you mention. No where in the NT is there any teaching that I'm aware of that condones such. Some would suggest that God Himself creates evil as written in Isaiah 45:7, however this is taken out of context. For a response to this can be found at the following link: http://carm.org/does-god-create-evil

My point in my earlier response was not that addressing the issue of God speak is not a symptom of the cancer of unbelief, it was that the matter of it was becoming a focal point on the topic and was leading to some hastily written thoughts about our fellow Christian posters and contributed nothing but a bone of contention that the naysayer viewers find delectable and find humorous.

I would like us to give respect to the view of other Christians and not attack them personally. This purpose of this thread was not to castigate others, but to point out how unbelief is the real problem we face on a fallen world. All other matters IMHO is a result of man living for man and not God.

 

Alrighty I am back. Sorry this post is going to reflect back a few days sue to responses. I only get on in between classes.

I was responding to the previous logic of 'when people die it is god testing yoru spirituality' arguement. See there is a difference her between the two similar situations

A: God is punishing or hurting others as a test to one persons spirtuality ( I believe there is a story in the hebrew bible called 'the book of job' or something like that. In this story God causing much harm to one man in an dare with satan to see if he would losing he faith. In the process his children die as part of the test. what are we just to condier this? Collateral damage? this is the situation I was referring to, where god tests your spirituality by harming others. Not cool.

B: You end up having your faith tested because a family member or someone to you died. This is the normal run of the mill situation where it is just the natural order of things. It is not god specifically targetting you or a family member as a test of faith. Which is (hopefully) the normal situation.

I am not bitter with god. have stated before I have no problem with religious people or the diea of god. However I do have certain issues with certain interpretations of how god works. If someone tells me my grandma died of cancer because it was god testing me, I would knock them out. God can do what he pleases to me, but if he harms someone else because of me? I would never forgive him. I also have no intention of 'seeking vengence" (first off how would someone go about that? Really?) on god as I do not blame him for anything that happened to me or my family as something caused by god.

It was not an attack on god or thiests in any way shape or form. Simply how you interpreted it. I was attacking the idea that God would hurt others in order to instill a lesson or test the faith of one. This is not a pure intention, this is not moral or just or good as people seem to describe god.

I've seen some of your posts taling about your conversations with the holy spirit, so are you the prophet of the week?

Anyway, I don't think the issue is I am 'attacking' your faith here, it is more like your are overly defending it. Everything I stated in my passage was a fact. God did not create spaceships. Man did. God did not create the skyscrapers. Man did. Did gopd create man? Maybe, but that doesn't mean it limits man in any way shape or form. think of the past, people used to live up to thirty years if they were Lucky. Now people commonly live past sixty at AVERAGE. Why? Because we as humans are constantly progressing, constantly finding new ways to shape the world and universe around us.

I am confused whats the point of this last segment even being here? Rather than sit there and go 'you don't know, you don't know' how about simply stating what your point is?

The point of the tower of babel wasn't the 'tower reaching the heavens part' it was the idea that all these people would live in one spot united under one city. God wanted them to scatter around the world which was why he 'confounded the language and scattered them'. Bable means something like 'confusion' or something of the sort which is where the term 'babble' comes from. This is the most common interpretation at least.

 

Wrong! What you are expressing is merely your warped perspective being expressed in a way that is designed to continue the hurt and subsequently continue the test. Her job on earth was finished or completed; her vehicle was taken into the show where major modifications were made and now she is traveling around in a vehicle that can take her places that our bodies cannot go until we also allow our bodies to be completely overhauled in a manner similar to what hers underwent. I look at the situation as a blessing to her, and because of the love that she and I shared while she was here, it only makes me happy to have seen the smile on her face as she exhaled that final breath.

Again, that is your warped perspective based on an obvious denial of God. If that is how you choose to look at life, and death, that is your prerogative. I hope your wife and children feel the same way, so when your body ceases its operative functions, then perhaps they will simply call in the local sanitation department to remove and dispose of a piece of human debris that needs to be placed in the local land fill where nature can continue its operation and allow the worms to return your body back to the earth.. completing that "natural order of things".

I see you had to stop and ponder that one for a moment before making your response to your own question

And may God bless you also with the same degree of 'forgiveness'.

Through out this entire exposition of yours this fine morning, you have spoken of God numerous times in a manner that expresses a belief in God. You speak of God in a matter of FACT way. So where do you really stand in relation to God?

Again, a perception on your part. Yet in the paragraph above, you render a judgment against God. 'a judgment against' is an attack on the character of.

Have I claimed to be a prophet? No? Warped perspective on your part.

Now it is time for you to pay the fiddler. Per your statement of absoluteness emphasized in red text above; Show these FACTS or forever be known as LIAR.

 

Genesis states a number of times the that man is very much like God.

There is nothing "humorous" about folks setting themselves up in the place of God.

The "Cancer" is when you see an evangelist on TV stand up and Claim "God says this, God says that" followed by the threat of Hell and (*)(*)(*)(*)ation when the evangelist in question is expressing an opinion that is not supported by the Bible or where folks have differing opinions due to Bible contradictions.

This fellow does not know for sure what "God Thinks" or God Says on many of the topics yet he/she is threatening folks to hell.

Whether it is The Pope or the Imam's ... no human speaks for God.

There was one who was Gods chosen messenger, who was annointed with the Holy Spirit and given the authority to speak for God.

I would like us to become aware of the horrible attrocities committed in the name of God in the past and on a daily basis in the present.

I would like us to understand that when folks set themselves up as having direct communication with God ( conversations with the Holy Spirit), and then urge folks to act on the basis of these messages they are going down a dangerous path. A path with known results. (Torture, Genocide, Buring of those that disagree, Persecution and killing of Jews, Theft of Property, and so on)

If there are any prophetic words of Jesus that I would urge Christians to really try and comprehend (and in fact the Bible also urges people to strive to comprehend the meaning), it is Matt 15.

Do not just read the one passage and do not just read one Bible translation.
Read the Chapter and understand the context and look into history to understand what the Awfull horror is.

The Abomination of Desolation (Awfull horror) is the Cancer.

Do not listen to me .. but do listen to Christ.

 

Christians are very aware of the atrocities committed in the name of God, yet we also know they were not following the teachings of Jesus, quite the contrary. On a daily basis? You would suggest this is in line with the terrorist activities of the extreme Muslims?

 

I'm afraid I'd be pretty rubbish at being a mediator.
My definition of "inspired scripture" would be very much like yours, but I don't see how it affects your discussion with incorporeal, which is probably why I would be a bad mediator: I can't really follow all of this back and fro.

 

As for the definition, I agree with that definition also. It is not the definition that is the problem. The problem is the application of the definition. What Go is attempting to say but not being honest enough to actually say it, is this; He is accusing me of attempting to usurp the power of God... He is attempting to say that I am taking away from God and claiming what God has said to me, as my own...Very directly, he accused me of blasphemy, but he refuses to show where and how I have allegedly blasphemed against God. I am still waiting for him to show the "proof" that he alleged to have.. He will not even do that.

 

Well, pseudepigrapha were quite common in antiquity. Irenaeus, the first known person who 'testified' that the Second epistle to Timothy was actually written by Paul was born about 60 years after Paul died and probably quite liked the quote we're talking about because he happened to not like the gnostics very much. I should think that he too could have had little more than a good guess. Obviously 'suspicious' little details such as the fact that the Epistles to Timothy are written in a very different style of Greek than other letters of Paul didn't bother him any more than they bother you. Not that I'm too bothered myself about the academic question who the author was or wasn't. In fact my confirmation verse is from The First Epistle of Timothy. It holds deep truth to me no matter who wrote it.

Of course you interpret scripture. We all do when we seek to find out what these ancient scriptures can tell us for our lifes today. And most of us ask the holy spirit for guidance when we go about it. Even most of these scholars whom you seem to hold in such low esteem do. Yet we often come to different conclusions when interpreting it.

I'm sorry that you saw me quoting from one of my favourite hymns as an attempt to offset your comment. I hope it wasn't me who made you see our discussion more as a battle between opponents than an attempt to enrich each other by sharing each others thoughts.

They don't seem to trust you either.

You speak what you think to be the truth. I think it's leaving out the "I think" bit that upset people.

The Holy Spirit isn't incoherent, but allows for us to read things in context. In this case the context is that Paul defends the Christians' faith that somebody who was crucified could have been the Messiah, an idea that in his age was indeed scandalous and would have been seen as foolish:

1.Corinthians 1:22: „Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.“

This very verse makes me deem the kind of miracles (i.e. signs) we've been talking about earlier pretty much unimportant for my faith in comparison to the crucifixion and Christ's demand to take up our cross and follow him.

As for you reading a condemnation of logic as such into these verses: I can't share this opinion. Not only because Christianity traditionally embraced classical logic from its early beginnings onwards, but also because being "sensible" is something that is specifically asked for in Titus 1:8.
I agree that God is above human logic, that a world solely ruled by it would be cold and an overly reliance on human abilities can easily lead to catastrophic hybris. That doesn't mean we're not supposed to use our God-given brain. Thus, when it comes the connection between faith and logic, I'd say with Ecclesiastes 7:18: "It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other."

 

I am not sure that Jesus ever claims that he is "God the Father".

Early Christians certainly did not believe this.

The "Trinity" was considered heresy by the Church at large and it was not until 300 years after the death of Christ that the trinity was made doctrine by Emperor Constantine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian

I am not sure I want to take the doctine of a Pagan Emperor whose motives for introducing the Tritity doctrine were self serving.

Pontifex Maximus, a title he bestowed upon himself, has greater power when there is only one God. Persia had been successfully united under Zoroastrian monotheism some centuries earlier.

Constantine knew this and had a very unstable situation on his hands.

Long story short .. No one knows for sure but the balance of evidence seems to point to Jesus and God being separate entities.

Jesus is referred to as the "son of God" , the messiah (messenger) of God, one annointed by God .. and so forth.

Jesus even talks about how he was "given" authority by God. It does not make sense to me that one would claim to give authority to themselves.


Christians are very aware of the atrocities committed in the name of God, yet we also know they were not following the teachings of Jesus, quite the contrary. On a daily basis? You would suggest this is in line with the terrorist activities of the extreme Muslims?[/QUOTE]

Not many are aware of the extent of the atrocities or how Christianity was forced on people by the sword.

I would suggest that some Muslim Countries are similar to Christianity 400 years ago.

The main thing to understand is that the thing that made Christianity an abomination back then is the same thing that makes Islam an abomination now.

Leaders that Claim to speak for God.

 

This thread is now closed.