There is no Omnipotence Paradox

You think? LOL

 

God doesn't hate anyone, He hates what they do. some day when you have children, you'll understand the distinction.

 

You are correct in that God did not take a direct action to make this happen. However, simply due to the fact that God knew it was going to happen, means that it necessarily had to happen.

Omniscience is perfect infallible knowledge. There was no chance of anything occurring that conflicted with God's knowledge, otherwise He would not be omniscient.

Free will logically cannot exist if omniscience exists. Actually, omniscience by itself logically cannot exist, but I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, since for some reason all this is difficult for some people to grasp.

Only from Lucifer's own perspective. Due to omniscience, rebelling against God was the only possible outcome, and Lucifer's free will was just an illusion.


This topic seems to come up fairly often, though the discussion does not usually get very far as some are either unable or unwilling to understand the consequences of these logical concepts.

 

I disagree. If it is predestined God would ordain and create people to go to hell that is not true in my opinion.

So you have no freewill? I am glad I do have it and I make my own choices and control my destiny. God knows how I will do that. He does not predestine it or influence it other than to reveal to me my sin and wrong choices

 

You are welcome to disagree, but unfortunately, it is a fundamental logical contradiction that Christians are unwilling to adequately address.

If God is both the creator and omniscient, this is exactly what it means.

Free will and omniscience create an inescapable logical paradox. It is literally impossible to reconcile the two.

Of course I do. Though I also do not believe in God, nor the existence of omniscience. I was speaking hypothetically - e.g. if God exists and []if[/i] He is omniscient.

 

Corrections: Either God may at the very best have a hunch how you will do that or you do not make your own choices and control your destiny.

Left is of course the just as obvious conclusion that God is a mere figment.

 

God's knowledge does not influence your choices. Believe what you want.

 

Of course not. It's the other way around; your choices must necessarily be predestined in order for perfect knowledge of your choices to exist. It is the predestination of your choices that controls the perfectness of God's knowledge.

God's knowledge, if perfect, is merely a possible derivation of predestination. It does not cause or influence your choices.

Since the god in question is also a creator god, you might say it is God's creation that influenced your choices. But perfect knowledge doesn't DO anything. It's a byproduct.

 

You are arguing about something that you don't believe in. That is to funny.

You are trying to use atheism to prove God

 

Not at all. It's not about whether God exists or not but if omniscience exists.

 

This is the part where Christians always get hung up and have difficulty getting past.

Your statement above is technically correct - God's knowledge does not directly influence your choices. What it does do, is limit every scenario to only one possible outcome. And if there is only one possible outcome, there was never really a choice to begin with. For there to be a choice, there must exist more than one possibility.

God has perfect infallible knowledge of the outcome of every scenario. That knowledge cannot be contradicted or changed, else it is not omniscient. Therefore, there is never a possibility of any outcome occurring which contradicts the one outcome God knows will occur.

As I said, free will and omniscience create an inescapable logical paradox. It is literally impossible to reconcile the two.


I want to point out that the idea of God is not necessary to discuss this contradiction. I am really only referring to the logical concepts of free will and omniscience. I have only kept it within the context of God, as that is where the discussion began. The entity which possesses omniscience is irrelevant - it could be a squirrel living in a tree in your yard. In fact, it need not even be possessed by any entity. The mere possibility itself or concept of both free will and omniscience is logically paradoxical and not possible.

 

Without God it does not matter. So you are trying to prove God exists

 

That makes no sense. I do not know what God knows so I make the choices through my free will. You want foreknowledge to be predestination which it is not.

 

For the peace of mind that would be afforded to Nullity, I again say, let him have his predestination as spoken of in the Bible, because when he accepts predestination as spoken of in the Bible, God comes into existence. Therefore, his acceptance of predestination not only shows his conviction that God exists, but also that God controls his life.

 

You have taken an old argument....and made it into something stupid.

The omnipotence argument centers around free will.

God can't be all knowing and powerful while we, humans, have free will.

Why?

Simple. If god knows all, then god knows what you are going to do every second of your life. If god is infallible, then you have no choice but to do what gods knows you will do, thus destroying any possibility of making the choice yourself.

That is why god either doesn't exist, is not omnipotent, or humans have no free will what so ever.

 

Free Will is also contridicted. Christians also claim that God has a divine plan and all humans are bound to this plan...Therefore, free will does not exist because it would allow people to go against god's plan.

 

Then your conclusion admits that God exists and that God has control over your life, else you will have to accept the concept of free will as being a fact.

At the emphasized text: Not according to the poll where you voted against predestination and subsequently accepted the concept of 'free will'. http://www.politicalforum.com/4597162-post1.html

 

I was merely pointing out the fact that there are contrictions in Chrtisianity and other religions about the nature of god and his abilities.

 

What are 'contrictions'? More rationalization is being incorporated in your statement. You vote against Predestination and then you say that Free will is contradicted. You do seem to be confused ... jumping from one end of the spectrum to the other.

 

They both have contriductions. Just because I point out those contridictins does not mean I beleive them.

I do not beleive in predestination, which is the belief that everything that happens in your life is already determined by god. But I also realize that free will is contridicted by christian dogma, in that it preaches the existed of a divine plan that can't be disrupted.

I have no idea where you get the idea that I have to agree with something in order to point it out.

 

Of course it does. It is actually quite simple, only your current beliefs preclude you from understanding.

Please know, I do not mean that in a derogatory way. I do not mean that you lack the intelligence to understand. Rather, it's a phenomenon called cognitive dissonance. Basically, one who learns of new information which conflicts with a preexisting deeply held belief, will dismiss said information, whether true or not, in order to hold onto that belief.

Whether you know what God knows or not is irrelevant. Just the mere fact that omniscience exists means that the "choice" you made was the only one that could have been made.

So again, if there is only one possible outcome to a scenario, how can a choice exist?

First, this has nothing to do with what I "want" - it is pure logical deduction. Second, this isn't about just foreknowledge, but omniscience. The two concepts are not equal. Omniscience is perfect and infallible, foreknowledge alone is not.

 

Once again, you are deceptively twisting things.

As I have already stated, I do not believe in predestination, since I believe in neither God nor omniscience.

Stop being dishonest.

 

One doesn't have to admit belief in a god to debate the philosophical aspects of a deity or human free will.

 

Gods are exactly irrelevant to this.

Omniscience could be attributed to a mount of dirt. Doesn't matter one bit.

 

I disagree, because one, no god or gods exist. Two omnipotence and omnipotence are total nonsense.

Stupid suppositions such as the immovable object/irresistible force should be ignored.