I meant that religious is not based on facts, not that a religious book can not mention historical figures or have known facts within it. But as for Caesar, the bible is not talking about the man....They are talking about the emporer of Rome, which after the death of Julius Caesar became known as Caesar as a title.
The argument is not meaningless. Herod is mentioned in the Bible. The Bible is a religious document. Herod was/is a FACT. Therefore your claim, "Well no discussion based in religion has facts. Religion can't have facts because it's based solely on the belief of the person who follows it.", is a false claim.
Your assumption depends completely on the fact that being in the bible means that someone existed.... Harod is mentioned in the bible yes, but he is also mentioned in historical documents... Then you have someone like KIng David who has no evidence of his existence outside the bible. Can you prove that KIng David existed without using the fact that the bible says he did as evidence?
So, someone throws on a label like metaphor, and suddenly and magically that thing has changed in its nature? Why do you think that something being called a 'metaphor' stops that something from having spirit or a spirit?
Some thoughts pertaining to spirits and metaphors. Hope you enjoy the short little read. http://www.theinnercoach.eu/spiritual-development/metaphorical-spirit
http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2011/09/scientists-magic-mushrooms-make-people-more-open-minded/ http://www.cracked.com/article_17276_5-scientific-ways-to-make-water-do-magic.html http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Magical_Scientist http://www.arlucky.com/pc-software/...invention-make-biological-become-transparent/ http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistrymagic/tp/sciencemagictricks.htm http://www.stevespanglerscience.com/experiment/00000124
Blimey BFOJ, did you just do a google search for "science" and "magic" and did not bother to actually read the links it came up with? Or have you never heard of Magic Mushrooms? The effect they have has nothing to do with magic, but just with the psilocybin they contain, a psychoactive hallucinogenic substance. People use these mushrooms to get high. Doing research on them has about as much to do with magic as doing research on Marihuana. As for your other links: they describe how to do 'magic' tricks with simple science experiments. They've got about as much to do with magic as my nephew's 'magicians kit'. He's quite good at some of the tricks but he knows as well as his spectators that there's no magic involved. As for magical thinking in religion: Yes it was pretty common among people in Jesus' time. But by now we shouldn't need magic and miracles any more to have faith in Christ as our saviour. That some people still have not overcome this need makes them easy prey to quack faith-healers and false prophets such as those money-grabbing Prosperity Theologians, the kind of crooks that give religion a bad name. Personally I would not want to be associated with them and I'm sure you wouldn't either. I don't believe in a God who cares to bestow super-powers on any of us, but in a God who let Christ be born in a manger and be crucified on a cross. Herein lies the promise that God is with us when we suffer. He doesn't take the suffering away from us but he helps us to endure it. Matthew 11:28-30: “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Yes, I in fact read the articles I linked to. It was in jest mind you. Apparently a bit of humor you didn't find comic relief in. Did I suggest "bestow super-powers"? The power is from God working through us. I'm not sure why you felt the need to share what Bible believing Christians should know and agree with.
Ah, what can I do? I'm German. According to my Brit husband we don't have a sense of humour. Yes, your OP suggested that Christian faith gives us the power to make illnesses and problems go away. It doesn't. It just helps us to cope with them. Which is what I stated and what you now agree with.
My ancestory is also German. I stand by my OP. We do have the power and authority in the NAME OF JESUS to speak to our problems. I did not suggest they just go away. First of all the power of God is in the spiritual realm. It will or can manifest in the physical realm on God's time schedule not ours. But we must continue in faith and reject unbelief, otherwise we can counter what God has provided us. This is where I believe we have our toughest struggles when our faith becomes lacking.
"Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain [illness or problem], Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting. " That passage is recognized as a 'parable' and is not necessarily to be taken literally; therefore substituting (for purposes of clarity) another term or terms for the word 'mountain' is not a sinful thing as long as the context remains the same. To further prove the point, consider the scripture of the woman with an issue of blood. Her sentiments were that "If I can only touch the hem of his garment." Her faith caused the illness to go away. Please reconsider the importance of the lessons that Jesus taught.
Please consider the fact that many these stories were written many decades after the death of Jesus it is hard to separate fact from fiction. Consider also that some of the stories written about Jesus do not make sense in a historical context so we know the writer could not have been very close to the source.
How do you KNOW that any of the documentation is "fiction"? How do you KNOW that the historical context is correct? Were you there as a first hand witness?
'Tis not hard to separate fact from fiction. How about all historical documents be held up to the same criteria?
Yes .. the Bible contains many interpolations. First off: If you are only willing to accept testimony from a first hand witness living today this means that you can not accept any of the Bible testimony because none of the authors of the Bible stories is alive. Second: The folks that were there recorded history. We know where certain places were located, who the Emperor or King was, various events that happened at certain times. This history does not jive with some of the stories in the Bible. Third: Even if we accept hte Bible to be "exact history", some of the Bible stories contradict each other from a historic standpoint or in giving different versions of events. If there are two stories (1 and 2), and details in 1 contradict details in 2, then only one of the versions of the story can be true which means that one of the versions is false. Take something as simple as the events shortly after Christs birth: The infant Christ was taken into Egypt shortly after birth in Matt 2:14 In Luke the infant Christ is born, then taken to Jerusalem for various rituals shortly after purification (not more than a month or two) after which they go back to Nazarath making sure to take regular trips to Jerusalem. Luke 2:22-42 They do not go to Egypt .. there is no "Slaughter of the Innocents by King Herod" as is recorded in Matt. In Matt they proceed rather hastily to Egypt.. no time for trips to Jerusalem (a fair journey in those days considering they did not have cars) .. and then back to Nararath .. The two stories do not Jive .. they can not both be correct.
They are ? . History is often verified by different sources and archaeological evidence can often be found to back up the sources. In the case of the Bible not even the source material (The Bible) agrees with itself in many places. This is not to say that the real story is not in there somewhere. The problem is that when 2 versions of the same story do not agree with each other then only one version can be true and the other must be false.
You are too quick to judge the so called differences you allude to. Much has been written to counter the supposed conflicts the unbeliever has regarding such.
Your post has been addressed many times on many occasions by others and myself. The so called conflicts have been addressed if you should take time to do the research and view other threads pertaining to this subject. The matter at hand, the topic of this thread has been co-opted and it behooves us to return to the issue of God's healing power through believers.
They are, we have no evidence that Plato, Socrates, Jesus or many other historical figures existed. Funny that we DO have evidence that Pontius Pilate existed and none that Jesus did. The historical value of the bible is beyond ridicule. The beliefs of the people who wrote it are foolish, superstitious and mythological nonsense.
