"Trans" Tinder date stomped to death

This is the appropriate thread.

A guy dressing up like a girl and tricking a guy into dating him maybe doing a little more is rape.

 

Yeah we don't know what actually went on but if the dude lying about his sex had any intimate contact that's rape.

Men shouldn't trick other men into having sex with them there are plenty of guys that will go that way.

 

It isn’t rape according to Virginia § 18.2-61 which states:

A. If any person has sexual intercourse with a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, to engage in sexual intercourse with any other person and such act is accomplished (i) against the complaining witness's will, by force, threat or intimidation of or against the complaining witness or another person; or (ii) through the use of the complaining witness's mental incapacity or physical helplessness; or (iii) with a child under age 13 as the victim, he or she shall be guilty of rape.​

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-61/

California is the only state with a “rape by deception” clause but it is very limited and wouldn’t apply here.

 

So loves can never be wrong and thus they are never changed right?

A defense against a criminal accusation can be outside of the realm of strict adherence to legality. Meaning that someone can commit a hervendous act, like stabbing their spouse to death after they went to sleep. But if we come to find out that the spouse they stabbed to death was raping their children then the ACT is justified even though technically it's illegal.

 

I have a two-part response to this.

First,

Committing an illegal act even if it is horrendous can be justified. Definitions of rape don't include things we haven't determined to be rape that doesn't mean they never will. At one time it wasn't considered rape to molest a boy. And it was only considered right to do it to a girl because of thoughts of virginity and purity at the time.

So concepts of rape change as we better understand the world.

I would say a man tricking another man into thinking that man is a woman could be easily considered rape. It doesn't matter if you consider a trans woman a woman you don't get to dictate to someone else what they consider a woman.

Second.
legalistic arguments don't carry much weight with me. I don't believe in legalism as that should be evident by the above post. Just because something is legal or illegal doesn't make it right or wrong. Law is merely a guideline to establish what is acceptable, and that should end does change with what we view as acceptable.

 

If he consented to sex with a FEMALE, and later found out that the person was MALE, then he absolutely did not consent. Non-consensual = sexual assault. Rape.

 

That's where this is a huge problem, legally. Lack of informed consent is grounds for claiming sexual assault - force is not required.

Think of it this way: If you consented to sex with person a), but by some trickery (maybe all the lights were out and a stealthy exchange was made) you actually boofed person b), you could absolutely claim rape. When trans people don't disclose their biological/social/official etc identity, they are engaging in subterfuge for the purposes of acquiring sex. It's no different to the above example, legally. The precedent is there, but so far no one has pursued a rape charge. It's going to happen .. HAS to happen. Precedents have a way of forcing us to comply with the legal structures we create.

 

Of course, it was a horrible response to a difficult situation. But the fact remains, we can't know that the kid knew, but his response suggests that he didn't know. If he didn't know, then he was raped. Responding to a rape with violence is less horrible, and would probably be forgiven in an 18 year old female raped by a 40 year old man.

 

But society would still regard her less harshly ... and I think you know that.

 

Thanks Polz. Well put.

 

I don’t disagree this isn’t acceptable, I even agree their should be laws against this, I don’t know if it is “rape” per say but definitely right there at that line.

Rape to me always includes force / threats, incapacitation, coercion or lack of consent. This case has none of those things — the murder victim simply lied. If he had told someone he was a millionaire and they slept with him because of that lie — they wouldn’t have normally — is that rape? If a woman says she is a virgin and isn’t, is that rape? If someone lies about their ethnicity, is that rape?

I will have to disagree with your weighting of legalistic arguments although I am not arguing this was right (it most certainly was not, the murder victim is scum). Legalism, defined crimes and absolute conditions are what separate a civil society from one that isn’t. Gay panic was once a legal defense used to justify very similar events — it is no longer.

In the end the football player had sex with the victim not once but twice, how can anyone have sex with a anatomically correct male and not know it?

 

If you swap gender out for ethnicity would you be defending murder?

 

Maybe not rape. Sexual assault might be a better term

I wouldn't consider that as big of an issue.

I would consider this similar to lying to someone about having a sexually transmitted disease.

Fair enough. I still don't value the argument. I'm never talking about what the law is.

You could perform oral sex without removing any clothing and you can have anal sex with removing minimal clothing.

That's two ways

 

Nonsense.

 

You don't, but others might.

If someone killed another person after intercourse because they lied about their ethnicity would you be justifying their actions?


If he would have punched him once and killed him, called the police, or behaved in any way like this was an accident my opinion would be different but he didn’t. This wasn’t just a punch, “All of the bones in his face were broken and his teeth were also missing” according to the Roanoke Times — Etute then left without rendering aid or calling police even though he acknowledged he heard “bubbling and gurgling”. Police didn’t find his body until the next day.

 

agree, this is almost like he consented, but later was worried about him telling what they had done, so he silenced him

now we will only get one side of the story... the killers

 

if a single women had sex with a married man that claimed to be single, could she murder him and call it rape?

we can agree that lying about oneself to get others to consent is wrong, but never justifies murder

 

I'm not justifying anybody's actions here so why would you ask this question?

Lying to someone about what food you eat is it the same thing as lying about what sex You Are.

Again I'm not justifying these actions I never did that I don't know where you got it in your head that I did.

All I was doing is understanding why someone would be angry. And maybe there should be a few laws about this.

 

"Lying to someone about what food you eat is it the same thing as lying about what sex You Are."

maybe if one is lying to a Vegan that they don't eat meat to have sex with them

 

What if a man consented to have sex with a woman because she stated she was on birth control. After sex she told him she lied and that she was actually trying to get pregnant.

1)is that rape? He did not consent to a situation where he might be a father and was tricked and lied to.

 

Apologies if that wasn’t your intention, I just took “Traumatic experiences such as sexual assault can alter your reasoning.” after calling this rape was an attempt to justify his actions.

I could understand him being angry, I cannot understand him breaking every bone in someones face and then leaving them to asphyxiate on their own blood though.

I didn’t mention food, I mentioned ethnicity — some people would be very irate if they found out someone lied about that, would you call that rape (or sexual assault)?

 

MURDER!!! Plain and simple, only thing to argue is the legal "degree" upon which he's to be tried....again, MURDER!!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!

 

I understand how a traumatic experience can mess with your reasoning that doesn't justify these actions at all.

Ethnicity is not biological. Sex is.

 

Nope.

 

Race then — which is biological.
My question stands; “Some people would be very irate if they found out someone lied about that, would you call that rape (or sexual assault)?”