I was arguing in another thread that the service academies have, in my opinion, outlived their usefulness. They cost taxpayers 4 times as much to turn a cadet into a commissioned officer compared to an ROTC scholarship and 10 times as much as commissioning officers through Officer Training School / Officer Candidate School. (OTS/OCS respectively). Furthermore in terms of the Naval Academy...Between 1972 and 1990 (these are the latest figures available), the percentage of admirals from ROTC climbed from 5 percent to 41 percent, and a 2006 study indicated that commissioning sources were not heavily weighted in deciding who makes admiral. Now this politically correct crapola to appease a voting bloc, same-sex marriage conducted by a military chaplain. Further evidence they need to seriously evaluate the service academies in terms of their return on investment for taxpayers and continual infantilization of cadets. The service academies are no longer indispensable for producing officers. Their graduates now make up only about 20 percent of the officer corps in any given year. West Point Hosts its 1st Same-Sex Wedding Dec 02, 2012 Associated Press WEST POINT, N.Y. -- Cadet Chapel, the landmark Gothic church that is a center for spiritual life at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, hosted its first same-sex wedding Saturday. Penelope Gnesin and Brenda Sue Fulton, a West Point graduate, exchanged vows in the regal church in an afternoon ceremony, attended by about 250 guests and conducted by a senior Army chaplain. The two have been together for 17 years. They had a civil commitment ceremony that didn't carry any legal force in 1999 and had long hoped to formally tie the knot. The way was cleared last year, when New York legalized same-sex marriage and President Barack Obama lifted the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy prohibiting openly gay people from serving in the military. The brides both live in New Jersey and would have preferred to have the wedding there, but the state doesn't allow gay marriage. "We just couldn't wait any longer," Fulton told The Associated Press in a phone interview Saturday.
Yep, me also with the congrats! 17 years!! Dang....guess there's a marriage that won't last......(sarcasm!) On a side note.... Hey! .daniel.....I remember you!
Shoot. I was gone nearly two years (mostly). Popped in here once or twice, but really came back "full strength" couple months ago. (as we continue to drag the thread off the rails....sorry driver of herks ) Hey, .daniel, how come I can't get to your profile page? Hmmmm?
Herk, how can you condemn this marriage? They are been together for 17 years, that's longer than most straight couples are married! They are an inspiration!
West Point is supposed to be a builder of mind, body, and spirit. The chapel represents the spiritual side of a cadet's life. Not all that long ago, same sex relationships were condemned among the cadets...now they're celebrated. Basically West Point has slid into the same moral relativistic crevasse that the rest of society has already done. I think it's a farce at this point...and as an institution it's return on investment for tax dollars should be evaluated. There is no substantive evidence officers produced from West Point excel over those from other sources or stay in the services longer beyond the required commitment of 5 years active and 3 years reserves.
I was hoping someone could tell me. I made a thread about in the appropriate forum and haven't had a response yet. When I go to my profile page, it leads to a different user's page (daniel517) who has completely different info from me (I don't live in CA) and was banned. It's bizarre. The exact opposite of moral relativism occurred. You're the one deciding arbitrarily that same-sex relationships are bad. Everyone else is simply realizing that they were wrong and that there is nothing inherently different about two people loving each other if their gender is the same. Maybe you'll lay off the relativism soon, eh?
In the military services, people are told what is right without being told why this is right. Why was same sex relationships condemned one year and with a stroke of the pen to appease a political agenda...it's not only no longer condemned...it's celebrated. Besides it's the tip of the moral relativistic iceberg. Ethics is no longer fixed, it has turned into personal opinion. The basic tenet of any cadet...whether at the service academies, ROTC at a civilian college or OTS/OCS...is "A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do." It's fixed in stone, literally as on many service academies and ROTC facilities it's a sentiment emblazoned on a bronze plaque mounted to a monument for all to see. The same tenet applied to a cadet in 1812, as it does to a cadet in 2012. Now however, moral relativism is creating a false True North, and one person's ethics and morality is as good as anothers...wherever the winds of popular culture take you. We already see the societal consequences of an increasingly secularized popular culture, the service academies are supposed to stand above popular culture and be a beacon of fixed ethics. It's all well and good, I just see no point in furthering the notion the service academies should be deified to the extent of an unquestioning loyalty to them...they are nothing more than a mirror of society as a whole...and at $400,000.00 per cadet...there are cheaper alternatives to producing a moral relativistic officer corps; if indeed that is the trend. In this era of defense cuts, one need look no further than the service academies. One person's opinion anyway..as this is all about personal opinion replacing a fixed system of ethical thinking...one person's opinion is as good as anothers.
Equating gay marriage with lying, stealing, or cheating is idiotic. It wasn't changed for political appeasement, it was changed because it was wrong to ban them in the first place. Morality isn't being treated relatively here; the government is ceasing an immoral practice. That's the difference. "One person's opinion is as good as others". Isn't that moral relativism by definition?
I wasn't comparing the two, I offered an example of a fixed ethical system. Lying, cheating and stealing were not tolerated 200 years ago among the cadre of cadets and it is not tolerated to this very day. A little over a year ago, same sex relationships...done openly...were not tolerated, but today of course...well, it's a doggone celebration of them... What has changed? Was this explained to cadets, what evidence is provided why there is to be tolerance? No, simply accept the change, toleration..acceptance and celebration is now mandated. What changed exactly? Societal norms, that's what. Who is to say that tommorow...well...lying is ok under certain circumstances and so is stealing... let's chip away at the basic core values of honor and duty...while we're at it I mean. it's called MORAL RELATIVISM... and by the way I am a former commissioned military officer...I have nothing but respect for Academy graduates even though I'm not one of them...it is a strenous, monastic way to go about 4 years of college education...far more demanding than the ROTC program I was part of; however the system itself needs to be evaluated. Are we still getting our money's worth from officers commissioned through the service academies? I'm not at all calling for closing the doors of West Point or the Air Force Academy...I'm simply separating mythos, from reality. Statues, don't make an officer...an unflinching dedication to a fixed ethical system...does. At least in my opinion....and if the system does change, at least give a good reason..preferably not one replete with political implications to appease a voting bloc which is all the repeal of DADT actually was. No actual explanation was given as to what changed in terms of the morality...only the mandate to accept it or else.
I guess that, maybe, the staff at Westpoint trusts the intelligence of their cadets enough to know the difference between "CHEATING AND LYING" and "LOVING?" Excluding Gays from the rights allowed to heterosexual was ALWAYS unethical, and always stupid. It just took a little longer for the crazies to come around to understanding that. But I would think that Westpoing cadets don't need a "detailled explanation" of WHY everyone should be able to commit through marriage to someone else, if both are consenting, committed adults. Now. . .how much "explanation" was there when Westpoing started to accept Women cadets? And what was that "explanation?" Duh!
I guess that, maybe, the staff at Westpoint trusts the intelligence of their cadets enough to know the difference between "CHEATING AND LYING" and "LOVING?" Excluding Gays from the rights allowed to heterosexual was ALWAYS unethical, and always stupid. It just took a little longer for the crazies to come around to understanding that. But I would think that Westpoing cadets don't need a "detailled explanation" of WHY everyone should be able to commit through marriage to someone else, if both are consenting, committed adults. Now. . .how much "explanation" was there when Westpoing started to accept Women cadets? And what was that "explanation?" Duh!
Putting aside the moral capriciousness of same-sex marriage, if I may. Let's look at the argument from a legal standpoint. The Federal government does not recognize the aforementioned "marriage" as legally binding, but does recognize state's rights to validate same. As the "ceremony" was conducted on Federal property, West Point Academy, the implication of a Federally recognized marriage is self evident. Therefore on those grounds alone, it's bad form to have allowed the "ceremony" to be conducted under the auspices of condonement imparted by a military chaplain.
Seems to me being condemned cant be good for the mind or for spiritual growth and one branch of moral relativism is accepting any one elses notions of right and wrong are not objectively wrong thats not happening people clearly reject some of your notion about that when it comes to homosexuality Not necessary either people could consider you objectively wrong in condemning homosexuality It seems obvious your only (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing about the money now because you dont like acceptance of homosexuality dont know if its shameful or just pitiful
maybe the Chaplin was attending to their spiritual needs marriage is not just a legal contract theirs a separate spiritual side of it to some
And their football teams suck. And the capes the cadets and middies were to THE football game are a laugh riot and probably cost the taxpayers $1000 each.
Academy Cadets and Mid-shipmen are told what to wear, what to do, what to eat...when to take a crap...how to take a crap...for 4 years, even the seniors. They are treated like infants and then when commissioned are expected to tell others what to wear, what to do, what to eat...when to take a crap...how to take a crap... Critical thinking skills are largely ignored, they're taught what to think and how to think. Great training when wars used to be two sides lining up on opposing sides of a battlefield, lobbing cannon balls and exchanging musket fire at one another...however discipline alone, will not win a war...creativity and adaptibility is a greater asset in these messy counter-insurgency conflicts of late. Ring-knockers are a bit too stoic for my tastes. One trait makes for a good leader, regardless of how you got there. CARE about the men and women in your charge...place their welfare, above your own. Accomplish the mission of course..but get your sons and daughters home in one piece when possible.
