Who is the most moral upstanding person?

Yeah, like the Police Benevolent Association, or the Kiwanis and Rotary and Elk and Moose clubs, or the DNC or the RNC... pretty notorious ... all of them.

 

Children learn how to function in society. they learn language math geography. They are also learning how to think and examine. Culture they learn by seeing and experiencing. In religion they learn excuses and judgment and they learn that god punishes in what to a child's mind is a horror. They are told over and over that god sent his son to be killed. They learn mythology and nothing useful. They learn to pray and to make excuses why this god that supposedly loves them at gun point fails to respond. No it's not the same at all.

 

I was never taught about any of what you mention in a school. Yes i learned about politics as history or current events. I was not taught what to think about it or who and what was right or wrong. classes as i recall when I was growing up was not teaching a bias and judgment. I was not being taught that marriage was between certain types of people and the others I should judge harshly.

Religion tells you what and how you are to think. It is not learning self expression. Religion is cult training and nothing more. James Jones did the same kind of teaching. Charles Manson did as well and so on.

 

Well yeah... we all recognize that the local baptist/methodist/catholic/hindu/islamic churches are all teaching its congregations to massacre the still pregnant mothers in the congregation and during sunday school, they teach the children how to make kool-aide. Yeah right.

From what you have written above, it appears that you, more than likely have never attended church even one time. . . sounds more like something that might have come out of one of those pop-top cans of Atheist Stew or perhaps some Non-Theist Instant Soup Mix. As for what you remember from school.. Looks like they did a pretty thorough job of the brain-washing... to the point of where you don't remember the corrective measures directed toward behavior of various students. you might want to do a little bit of your own research and maybe you can find an antidote to that Congestive Mind Failure condition that you seem to be suffering from.

 

In short, they are being programmed according to an agenda established by the government.

Culture is learned from peer association, whether it be by parents, fellow students or authority figures who are determined by further programming by others.

excuses are taught by people who do not like to live up to responsibility, judgement is self-taught and is based on experience. Horror is a subjective thing and is stirred by the formation of creatures of the mind (which do not have to be the result of external input). Mythology is also taught as a segment of academia in some colleges; as for something that is not useful to the masses ... how about algebra and geometry... (we all know how useful and how frequently used those subjects are in this society... how we must depend on those required skills in the average job across America).

 

Each of the persons you describe may or may not be morally upstanding. We are human and each of us has weaknesses that are immoral. Only Jesus was perfect .

 

You know very well that is not what I mean. They teaching and indoctrination techniques that those people used are identical to the ones churches use. The teachings may be different but it does not make the mind controlling techniques the same. Rigid rules. Strict doctrine with little to no wiggle room for personal differences.
The process is all about mind control to the point of learn schizophrenia.

 

Have you never heard of the differences between standard education and cult training. They have to deprogram people from cults. There are people who are trained in helping people get there mind back after cult brainwashing. You are not making a comparison here. They are not the same. Religious belief is a cult learned mental takeover.

Religion is all about excuses. It is all about justifying the non actions of a so called god. It is all about excuses for failed lives. It's a crutch for life. Sorry nice try but you know education and indoctrination are totally different.

 

I agree.. and that is probably one of the reasons that were considered by the US Supreme court in recognizing Atheism as a religion.

No! Rationalism (the act of rationalizing) is about making excuses. What is a 'crutch for life'???? Simple.. anything that places confidence in a person to enhance his/her ability to interact with others in this society. Education and Indoctrination are IMO synonymous.
"Main Entry: education
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: instruction, development of knowledge
Synonyms: apprenticeship, background, book learning, brainwashing, breeding, catechism, civilization, coaching, cultivation, culture, direction, discipline, drilling, edification, enlightenment, erudition, finish, guidance, improvement, inculcation, indoctrination , information, learnedness, learning, literacy, nurture, pedagogy, preparation, propagandism, proselytism, reading, rearing, refinement, scholarship, schooling, science, study, teaching, training, tuition, tutelage, tutoring "

Gee.. how about that ... they are synonymous.

 

Simple question: Branch Davidians, The People's Temple, Mason Family, The Solar Temple, Heaven's gate etc. These are considered cults. I am sure you agree. The indoctrination by these cults is identical in every religion.
We all attend schools growing up. They do not compare to the indoctrination but all religious cults.
They are all mind control techniques.
Delusional Disorder: Hallucinations (seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not really there) This is exactly what religious people say about their invisible god. They hear it. They see it. They feel it. It is not really there. It is a mental disorder brought on by the indoctrination of the religious cults.

 

I agree that society has labeled them as 'cults' ,,, but hey.... look at some of the labels that have been placed on other groups of people.. so what does a societal label really portray other than the ignorant state of mind of those who choose to use such labels?

Oh? So you have attended 'indoctrination' meetings of all of those, and have also attended welcoming meetings of all the various churches, and can speak from your own privately consolidated experiences and thereby know what you have said to be a fact that is applicable to all religions? No? Well uh...

Another falsehood being portrayed by you. NOT ALL have attended 'schools' while growing up. Keep your FACTS straight and stick to the FACTS, not your presumptions and preconceived notions.

Yes! Those attending school have been exposed to such things as you describe above.

What do those religious people say about their God? That He is invisible? Yes! He is invisible to the human eye that is tuned to the physical world.

Only partially correct. Partially, because it is not ALL the religious folk that have such experiences.

More opinion? Have you got verifiable scientific proof of your claim? No? If you say yes, that is gonna have to be put before the readers so that the readers can analyze the data that you present. Have you got such data? No? Hmmmmm.

 

There are many books written about the cults I have mentioned. The information is available. There are books written by the people that deprogram the members as well. The information is readily available. I attended a catholic school for a time and witnessed the programing and heard parents yammer the god stories. So yes I have witnessed or read the verifiable books. I even read the unverifiable bible. Which I find to be nonsense from front to back. At best it was written to control the mindless unthinking masses that believed that this god would crush them if they screwed up. I have yet to mention science. You keep doing that.
I am still waiting on your god to tell you what card I have laying on my desk. That god can't be much if it can't let you know what card I have out.
I have a extremely Baptist brother who indoctrinates his children regularly.
Yes you are correct some people are home school and most of those are religious and have even more ability to abuse there children with nonsense.

I am still waiting on any evidence that you have for this god. You still have nothing. All you can do is attack me. I am waiting on your reams of verifiable evidence for god. I would wait a long time because there is none and never will be any. Even after we're both dead and gone there will be no proof that you are correct.
In the Bold: They all say that the scripture is the inspired word of god and the ""spirit" helps them understand it. They have a personal relationship with a guy that has been dead for thousands of years. Tell me that this is not delusional. A invisible non entity helps them understand. Wow is that far fetched. A relationship with a dead guy. Holy crap batman if that isn't delusional nothing is.

 

Your very words, expressing such hatred toward God, and your own vain attempts to defeat God, proves that God exists or that you are a lunatic who is waging a war against nothing.

 

Arguing for or against ideas does nothing to prove that they exist.

If it did I would gladly write up a hefty tirade against the existence of the flying spaghetti monster.

 

Understanding that "ideas" exist only in the mind, it is strange that some Atheists and non-Theists would desire to reject things that appear in the 'mind'. If it were not for things appearing in the mind, then there certainly would never be any form of progress in any of the fields of science. All of those wonderful 'ideas' coming into the mind and then manifesting in the material world. So, to put a ban on the arguing of 'ideas' is almost equally strange because such a ban would lead again to no improvement upon the existing ideas,,, either before or after the initial manifestation. So, as man has already proven, any 'idea' has the potential of manifestation... example... look at the hundreds if not thousands of years that passed by while man was holding the various 'ideas' of flight when suddenly one day controlled flight happened and it was manifested. IMHO, it is not a prudent notion to reject an 'idea' regardless of how unseemly it may sound.

 

I don't see a difference in morals between those two. Actions are more important than motive.

 

This is an unreal and ignorant comparison, it's assuming the only reason the Christian does not steal is because of his/her faith. How would you know that? How would you know that's why the Christian is not stealing? because you say so?,,,HAHAHAHAHAAHAH
Do yourself a favor, go find a Christian display this Christmas and park your Atheist crap around it...Now that will really give you a thrill.....

 

If you Christians want to claim that morals come from religion, deal with the consequences of it.

 

Oh Go scratch, we claim it comes from family values,,,deal with that!! I have a better idea, why dont you just ignore us like we ignore you....

 

Now its 'family values'!!!!!!

 

You didn't read my previous post. I, myself, would be the Christian who doesn't do things because he's scared of hell because I can't think of another reason why I would abide by Christian ideals. I don't love God, he's a tyrant and an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*). The only reason I would follow him is because I'd be scared of going to hell.

Repeating what I said in my previous post that you didn't read, I am both. I am in a fork in the road and I could become either of the two choices listed. I chose a third choice though, Agnostic.

 

You really suck at ignoring him.

And your posts are very UN-christian-like.

 

God does not come into it..perhaps to you but not true Christians. If anybody was a good human being just because of hell they would never be saved, because that would mean they could never truly be sorry for anything they did wrong. It's called imperfect contrition,,being sorry only to benefit yourself...it's unacceptable in our faith.
Your entire understanding is incorrect...

 

Perhaps you noticed,,I am not the turn the other cheek type.....Oh,,and by the way,,Stones and I have been friends well before you were here. We understand one another so please do not take license to judge what we may say to each other, nobody asked you......

 

I know where my morals come from,,,not you! People make their own decisions, that's free will...This constant grouping of people is not just boring but ignorant, and I am surprised you of all people dont know that....