Personally I feel and I have posted this...that Israel has shown a great deal of restraint as far as attacks upon it by various Palestinian supporters. And as I have posted before....if it was the U.S. instead of Israel that was being attacked....we would not negotiate...there would be no discussion....there would be no talks....the U.S. Military would IMMEDIATELY OBLITERATE ANY ATTACKING FORCE OR GROUP....invade that territory and ANNEX IT!! And every one here KNOWS IT!!! AboveAlpha
Bizarre claims. The Israelis have slaughtered and displaced many thousands of Palestinians as a matter of aggressive Zionist expansionist policy. The aggressors must expect resistance.
Look without taking sides one has to look at it this way. If a person is poking a sleeping bear over and over again....and the bear get's sick of it and eats the person poking it....who's fault is that? The Bear...or the person poking it? AboveAlpha
Well.....some say the Bear hibernated there first and some say that spot first had a hut on it. The issue doesn't matter as the Bear is there NOW. AboveAlpha
At best, only a sixth of the lands of Israel were voluntarily sold to Israel (and it could be argued as little as a tenth of the land was acquired that way). Just the fact that the State of Israel (either directly or through state-controlled organizations) owns such a high percentage of the land points out this fact. In quite a few cases no compensation was provided at all for the seizure of such lands (latter stages of the claiming of abandoned land - which in most cases was abandoned because the refugees were physically prevented from returning, or claimed for military purposes and then later quietly "leased" to Israelis for settlement purposes). Israel was indeed built from scratch, but plenty was stolen (and you don't need to put the word in quotes as it is quite an accurate word for what happened in the majority of land transfers). You seem to be harping on the original Zionist movement prior to the self-declaration of the state of Israel (contrary to the UN plan of the time) and not the decades of actions Israeli governments have taken since then. And how was Israel truly the home of the Jewish people? It was self-proclaimed - there were no more than 5% of the Jewish people in the world living in Israel/Palestine prior to WW2 and that in itself was a large jump from 80 years before that. Jews were still significantly outnumbered by the people we now call Palestinians at that point (who indeed did not have a true national identity, but who had in many cases been living on the land for centuries). Israel was very lucky that its creation coincided with the lapse of imperialism, both local and global. The reason almost no-one created a state in the area (apart from the Crusaders, who you somehow neglect to mention) was that there were always stronger powers in the area and some of the elite were either from that stronger power or remnants of a previous power (Syrians, Turks, British, etc...). It's ironic that Gilos is using the "no state" argument to push for an inferiority of Palestinian claims because the Nazis used that for one of their reasons for Jewish subhuman status (can't create their own nation but instead parasitically live in other peoples' states). Apparently a bad argument becomes a good one when you decide that it favors what you want.
That's a lie, land that belonged to Arabs was bought, barren desert land didnt belong to anyone and was free to settle in - read UNSCOP report before you reply, its a famous Arab whine that all the land belonged to them but it's still a lie, only countries can calim barren land as part of their terretory - and there was no state back then, Arabs owned just the areas they lived and worked in - there are land deeds that prove it. see above. Jews always considered Zion as a national home, it appears in many prayers no matter what country Jews lived in, what diffrence does it make how many Jews lived there when Muslims ruled it ? the important fact is when the moment was right Jews came and rebuilt their country....it wasnt out of boredom or some devious sceme to take over the world it was truly an historic moment for the Jews ppl otherwise it would have failed. May the Crusaders forgive me, but they were a foriegn power who's home remained in Europe, I know Arabs sees us like the Crusaders but the Jewish ppl has no main or secondery power base, this was the historic home of the Jews and it is now again, no other place for us, no place to retreat. The building of the settelments started during the Ottomans, yes it was lucky for them the Ottomans fell, if they didnt the state would never be created but you can say the same on anti-sematism, without it perhaps the Jews wouldnt even need Zionism and why stop here ? a few modifications during Jesus and Judaism would "take over the world" not Christianity. Please...... Spare me the "you turned into Nazis" fable.... I know how mush you like to use it arguing with Israelis but it was and always will be a stupid argument. I said there was no Muslim/Arab country to calim all land including barrren land - which is the calim you make when talking about 6% ownership of the Jews prior to 1948, my argument never suggests that ppl that live and work their land should be evacuated, they were evacuated during the war, a war that broke 50 years after massacres on Jews - and Jewish retaliations on Arabs, the war broke when it was obvious the Arabs will fight Israel to the end - they fought and lost and lost their land, that's Karma for you.
the people known today as Palestinians have always been there - under various rules, various names. the Palestinians are the modern descendants of the Israelites
and yet, they bare no cultural connections to the Hebrews. meanwhile descendents of Spanish Jews who converted to Catholicism still light candles on Saturday and engage in other practises that show who their ancestors are. if the Palestinians were truly descended from the ancient Jews, there would be some cultural indicators. there would be some family histories. but there are none. there is no evidence that Palestinians are descended from Jews.
Funny since from day one the Palestinians slaughtered Jews n the riots of '29 and before and then declared war and even now have not made peace and maintain the official position of destroying Israel. Israel has not proclaimed their wish to destroy Palestinians or Palestine, if they did there would be no more Palestine. Indeed! Seems the Palestinians are really really crappy at making terrorist attacks so they might wish to rethink their strategy and try to make peace instead. On the other hand,the figures are extremely small for a low level conflict such as this in a built up area which proves the remarkable restraint Israel shows day after day. As well, Israel is under no obligation to try to downgrade their state of the art military and equip them with Al Qassam missiles, rusty AK 47s and stone throwing machines.
Jews also have always been there under various rules and were always known as Jews, Arab conquest is defined by exact dates - it had a begining and an end, You may also have an Israelite ancestor/s but that doesnt matter because your links were lost along the way, Jews are decendants that continue the same heritage, faith, culture etc'. Palestinians consider themselves Arabs and Arabs are a diffrent nation from Israelite/Judeans/Jews. so it doest matter if your ancestors were club members - what does matter is if you are a member.
Of course they are descendant of Hebrews, and even Ben Gurion, Abraham Polak and Ben Zivi admitted that. ---- Ben Gurion: " ... the local dialect is strewn with Hebrew and Aramaic words, distinguished from other Arab vernaculars... ...the Palestinian populace does not see itself as Arabic. To them the Bedouin are the Arabs. They [Palestinians] refer to themselves as the "fellahin". ...some 210 Palestinian villages still retained old Hebrew names and many fellahin practised, in addition to Muslim law ... the "laws of the patriarch Abraham". ---- Abraham Polak in his work "The origins of the Arabs of the country": [There is a ] "considerable likelihood that the Judeans did convert to Islam". ------ Genetic research of the fissile DNA and the DNA of today Palestinians confirm this, the genetic composition of the Population did not change in the last 2000 years, and Palestine could never feed more than half a million of inhabitants. Romans never expelled a considerable amount of Judeans from Palestine, most Hebrews never left their country. A little minority of Zealots were expelled, and these Zealots managed to convert a large amount of Pagans to Judaism, like the Arab tribes in Yemen, the Berber tribes in North Africa, and the Khazars in South Russia who later mixed with the Judaized Slavs and some Germanic tribes. It is a well known fact that Judaism was a proselytizing religion in the Middle Ages, and a huge amount of Pagans converted during the first millennia AD to Judaism. On the other hand, most Palestinian Hebrews converted to Christianity (which was originally a Hebrew sect) and later to Islam. Today the biological descendants of Hebrews are expelled from their land by the crazy descendants of European converts who believe in their "chosenness". Many of these EUROPEANS are Atheists and their ancestors never spoke a Semitic language as their native language, but they still believe in their "biological chosenness". Most people would call this phenomenon, known as Zionism, pure racism.
You mean the report that said 85% of the land belonged to the Arabs? It wasn't about the moment being "right." Rather, it was out of percieved necessity that they return. And can you understand why the Arabs see you as " Crusaders?" There was no state, but there definitely was a country. Yeah, the poor Jews were massacred for 50 years and the Arabs were "evacuated" from their lands. Such scholarly work! I don't think you know what Karma means.
What does printing a map of ancient history prove; especially one that shows the territory at its height? That's the kind of thinking that causes so much trouble in the Balkans, except that the people there are only going back centuries instead of millenia. Printing a map of the Roman Empire doesn't mean the Italians should seize the South of France or Tunisia.
I'm not saying the Israelis have turned into the Nazis; I'm saying that when they borrow Nazi tactics and/or propaganda styles they are learning entirely the wrong lessons from the Holocaust. Is that really the message you want extracted from that agonizing and defining recent history; that if such tactics were used on the Jews its OK for the Jews to use them on others? Your reference to the UN documents of the time is truly amazing, given that Israel violated the provisions of the UN plan in multiple ways. Israel was not supposed to be declared as a separate state but was instead supposed to be coexistent with non-Jewish (Palestinian, in other words) areas. It's quite true that the Arab powers had no intention of abiding by that plan either, but quoting UN legalities peculiar to that time and place that no-one tried to follow doesn't make such a seizure of land legal. As for the people that "evacuated" the land, they did no such thing. They were refugees who fled the fighting in fear for their lives (justified or not) just as refugees do in virtually all conflicts (the more so in more modern ones as travel becomes easier. The difference in Israel after the War of Independence was that the "evacuees" were physically prevented by the IDF and Israeli police from returning to their land and a series of laws were passed converted such "abandoned" land to state land for increasingly little compensation. Try the following Wikipedia entries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949–56_Palestinian_exodus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_land_and_property_laws If land ownership in Israel is so above board, why does the Israeli Land Administration own 93% of all land in Israel and only 7% is in private hands? If Israelis were truly taking and holding land in a free and open manner, wouldn't Israeli citizens have true ownership of the land on which the houses (and in many cases, businesses) rest? The whole "lease" arrangements are an obvious sign that the narrative you are pushing is simply not true.
you have no evidence that they are descended from Hebrews. in reality, the Palestinians are descended from the many Muslim migrants to Palestine, including: Arabs, Persians, Turks, Bosnians, Egyptians, Kurds, etc. nevermind the fact that the Palestinians ZERO oral history of being descended from the ancient Jews.
It's called cultural and societal evolution. Americans today don't look, sound, and behave the way Americans did just 200 years ago. When you have a juggernaut religion like Islam come through which says "convert, pay the huge tax, or face the sword," you can't blame the Palestinian Jews for evolving. Where is the evidence of a mass migration of Middle Eastern Jews into North Africa and Europe right after the claimed diaspora ? There is none - and the reason is because the Israelities didn't go to North Africa and Europe. At best they stayed put and became the Palestinians, or moved to their nearest surrounding regions in the Middle East. If you're a Jew from Morroco or Germany, you're a Jew by faith alone and have no rights to Israel. There's a reason Jews from Europe and Central Asia look European and Central Asian - it's because they're European and Central Asian !
BINGO ! Excellently worded, completely logical. Get ready for the Israeli-loving sheep on this forum to completely deflect and dismiss your post. That in 2014 we still think a bunch of white, European Jews are somehow the descendants of the ancient brown skinned Israelite is pathetic.
Genetic evidence suggests that Jewish men from Palestine moved into southern Europe and took Gentile wives. That's why Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews have mostly Middle Eastern male genes........but European female genes.
you got legit sources to prove this nonsense ? first off, the one "major" study which showed the majority of Ashkenazi Jews having ties to the Palestinians also failed to site that 100% of all white Euorpeans of all faiths also show ties because the link was looking for ANY Middle Eastern blood trait. if you study your evolution you know man came from Africa and moved north ward - which is why all men and women will show Middle Eastern blood if you look hard enough BUT, it is nearly impossible to claim that an Ashkenazi Jews is related to the ancient Israelites because there is no source DNA of the ancient Israelities to base that off of. case in point - the Jews of Bene, India claim to be one of the "lost tribes" - another fabricated myth - and moved in drones to Palestine. These Bene Jews look and sound Indian, not Middle Eastern - yet with our tax money and the "right of return" they went there and displaced the Palestinians who have always been there.
