>>>Off Topic Removed<<< The opinion of Ben Gurion, Abraham Polak, Ben Zvi (prominent Israelis that I have quoted) or the Israeli history professor Shlomo Sand is more important, because these people lived or live in Palestine and know what they are talking about. But beginning wit the Golda Meir the Zionists just denied the existence of Palestinians, who did not call themselves Arabs. Idiots, like Joan Peters, tried to revive the rotten Zionist propaganda, but Frankenstein debunk him and he later debunked Alan Dershowitz who just plagiarized Joan Peters.
Even the National Socialists scholars had to admit that there was a huge number of pagans that converted to Judaism. It seems that Neo-Zionists are even more orthodox believers in the existence of a "Jewish race" than it was the case with National Socialists.
Uhhhh...no. Both those Israeli's who did not become Israeli's because of religion and lived in this region LONG before Judaism was a Religion and those Palestinian's who lived in that area of the world LONG before Islam even existed as a Religion.......WERE AT ONE TIME ONE PEOPLE!!! Genetic Testing has 100% Conclusively determined this to be a FACT!!! Obviously not all Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims are part of this group as you pointed out some of the current Palestinian's immigrated to this region and many Jews immigrated to Israel. But the Ancient Genetic that exist in members of both some Palestinian's and Israeli's show they were at one time a single unified people. AboveAlpha
The Times recently carried this unusual report on an Israeli Jew (Tsvi Misinai, a retired computer expert) who's hoping to prove that Palestinians are descended from Jews. Apparently, he thinks that proving this will help to stop the bloodshed. His idea is that modern Jews are descended from emigration in the first few centuries of the Christian era. The Jews who stayed put in Palestine converted to Islam, and became Palestinian Arabs. There's hope that genetic tests might be able to prove this. Well, there is good news and bad news on that score. The good news is that the genetics of Arabs and Jews have been pretty extensively researched. The classic study dates to 2000, from a team lead by Michael Hammer of University of Arizona. They looked at Y-chromosome haplotypes - this is the genetic material passed from father to son down the generations. What they revealed was that Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population, and that Palestinians are slap bang in the middle of the different Jewish populations (as shown in this figure). LINK...http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html A paper published in 2000 by geneticists Harry Ostrer, a professor of genetics at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, and University of Arizona geneticist Michael Hammer showed that most Ashkenazis, Italians, North Africans, Iraqi, Iranian, Kurdish and Yemenite Jews share common Y-DNA haplotypes that are also found among many Arabs from Palestine, Lebanon and Syria. Only a small percentage of the Y-DNA of Jews originated outside of the Middle East—some in the Caucuses. LINK...http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonenti...l-calls-those-who-disagree-nazi-sympathizers/ AboveAlpha
The "Jewish gene" is known as J1 (J-P58 ), which is found most commonly amoung Cohain Jews. around 46% of Jews with the last name "Cohen" have this gene. Syrians from Hama have it at 44.4%. Folks from Qatar have it at 56.9%. Yemenites have it at 67.7%. Folks from Tunisia have it at 44%. From Tarkoum in Sudan? 74%. so clearly, this gene is no indicator of common ancestry from the Hebrews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J1_(Y-DNA)#Levant_and_Jewish_populations
Palestinians[edit] Further information: Palestinian people#DNA and genetic studies Many genetic studies have demonstrated that most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions and the Palestinians and other Levantines, like the Druze[12][13][17][39] and Bedouin,[12][13] are genetically closer to each other than the Palestinians or European Jews are to non-Jewish Europeans or Africans.[12][13][91] One DNA study by Nebel and colleagues found genetic evidence in support of historical records that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".[91] They also found substantial genetic overlap between Muslim Palestinians and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, though with some significant differences that might be explainable by the geographical isolation of the Jews and by immigration of Arab tribes in the first millennium LINK....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews They are basically the SAME PEOPLE. AboveAlpha
That had precedence at the Peel Commission who suggested pop transfer, Jews and Arabs alike, many anti-Israel posters here like to quote Ben Gurion saying he was in favor of that transfer in order to create a state - ofc they claim it was his own secret plan when in realty he just responded to the Peel Commission. The UN gave their view on a just solution, 2 states by agreement, I dont think one side can decide on the other by refusing such agreement and I dont tghink the Jews should have just accept the attacks on them after 181 was voted. Arabs were vain enough to make clear their intentions. Yes, they refused citizenship before and during the war - unlike others that stayed some even assised the Jews against Jordan (Abu Gosh village), we were having a war between nations so allowing them back without citizenship is pretty much insane, compensation is out of the question without an agreement. Because Israel was created in crisis and was run as a state in crisis ever since, Religon and nationality are very sensitive in our area (not just Israel) a country without official borders that its neighbors refuse to recognize cannot let a vital issue like land ownership - that practicly descibes its borders - to be out of its control, however that's changing, there will be many changes in the real-estate regulations soon as the ppl demands it.
What an absurd justification! If your cause is truly just you can trust your citizens (the Jewish ones, anyway) to be patriotic and if you aren't conniving to gradually steal Palestinean land a proper system of private ownership would be much superior to the current system. Israel hasn't been in a real crisis since the end of the Cold War (the Intifadas were annoying but hardly a deadly danger to Israel), so there has already been a quarter century in which to change the system. As for the rationale of the borders, Israel has always controlled the road network and planted military encampments where they were needed anyway (speaking of which, isn't it odd how often that becomes state land that sometimes is subsequently leased to Israeli citizens when the military need is no longer there?). Whether Gilos and his family or Ahmed and his family own 32 Jaffa Lane or Pomegranate Farm has very little to do with the defence of Israel.
Im talking about the majurity of the undeveloped land, not appartments in the cities, no one can deny me from selling my apartment to a non-Jew and I never heard of such case either. Its not easy to change rules on real-estate where so much public money is invested but Israelis did go on protest 2 years back on that, we see some changes in regulations now but there is still work to do, Im sure I can find a few idiotic laws in your country that havent changed in 25 years - probebly where alot of money is invested as well. Undeveloped land, country land, debated land seized in 48 etc' are crucile to define borders with our Palestinian neighbors, a few months ago it was suggested that an entire area of Israeli-Palestinian villages will be cut off from Israel and be part of a Palestinian state so the land ownership matters very much untill we have an agreemnet with the Palestinians - somewhere in the next 500 years or so, I dont know how I can be more clear than that...
Just to let a few here know....I got the communication I was DREADING yesterday as my buddy who I owe one more BIG FAVOR asked me if I would be interested in going to the Middle East with my Team and Moderating multiple meetings between all sides in order to prepare for possible larger scale talks. Now I have been told that the current Israel Leader has stated that no peace agreement specific to Palestinian STATEHOOD will be possible unless both Hamas and Fatah denounce Terrorist Attacks upon Israel and PLEDGE that they will BOTH agree and state that Israel has a RIGHT to EXIST. Now...the meetings that my Team and I would be Mediating would not be dealing with any issues so grandiose as I am happy if I can get all sides to agree upon SEATING ARRANGEMENTS but we do have an existing issue. A short while back a splinter group of Islamic Jihad which was so hardcore that even the Islamic Jihad Leadership made a statement that this splinter group was neither condones or supported by Islamic Jihad and that the actions of this splinter group should in no way be taken or considered to be those of Islamic Jihad. My Team and I ran into members of the Splinter Group a while back and well...let's just say if we happen to run into them again we will SHOOT FIRST...and not even BOTHER to ask questions later. What most people don't seem to understand or now is that since all groups be they Israel, Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad or various elements of the Palestinian Authority....GO WAY OUT OF THEIR WAY....to make sure any fighting or attacks between or upon each other be limited to them alone and THERE EXISTS ONE MILITARY DOCTRINE that all members and all groups on all sides make sure to follow. That Doctrine is.....DO NOT EVER LAUNCH OPERATIONS OR ATTACKS THAT MIGHT RESULT IN THE DEATHS OR ANY HARM UPON AMERICAN FORCES, U.S. INTELLIGENCE AGENCY PERSONAL or U.S. PEACE ENVOYS. The REASON for such a doctrine existing on all sides is because just about all sides benefit from BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF U.S. AID!!!! Thus Hamas makes CERTAIN that is there happens to be any U.S. Military Advisers in an area of Israel....Hamas will make certain to tell Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad not to run any anti IDF operations or indiscriminately launch any missiles that would land even CLOSE to where any U.S. Forces or American personal would be. And contrary to what various leaders on all sides say and contrary to what most people around the world might think....when a Team such as mine runs meetings such as these the very first thing that the representatives from all groups will do before proposing any plan or making demand will be to come up to us BEFORE any such Meetings and ask us....."Do you think it is OK if we ask for THIS? Do you think THAT will be a problem? Is any of YOUR...as in my....Leaders still angry about what we did back then? Do you think...THIS....will be OK?...etc..etc. What most people see on the Internet and TV as far as all groups and sides making threats and making warnings is NOT THE REALITY!!!! What the reality actually is.....is for each group to try to figure out exactly how far we will allow them to go and how far we won't. A while back when the who Islamic Jihad splinter Group thing happened there was a group of young and inexperienced members of Islamic Jihad who found out that as seemingly WE HATE THE INFIDEL AMERICANS AND JEWS Islamic Jihad appeared that when it came right down to it Islamic Jihad understood that there was just so far they could go and that even though they were considered the most Hardcore Group compared to Hamas or Hezbollah....Islamic Jihads Leadership still understood there very existence could be at stake if they were to do something that we the American's determined to be GOING TO FAR. This group of very young and inexperienced Islamic Jihad Members split off and started operations and attacks that WE CONSIDERED TO BE GOING TO FAR!!! When that happened my Team and I were sent in as it is our JOB to attempt a peaceful settlement of the issues and in this case we were sent to notify this splinter group that had refused to obey the main Islamic Jihad Groups Leadership that we were going to give them ONE CHANCE to straighten out and if they didn't then other much more drastic methods would be used to FORCE their compliance. They attempted to fool us into thinking that they would meet with us and in reality they were setting us up so they could enact as many casualties as possible. Now even though I take extraordinary steps to make certain that any such possible attempt of blind siding my team will fail....what this splinter group did NOT EXPECT is for ISLAMIC JIHAD TO RAT THEM OUT TO US!!!! During this MOP UP OPERATION we did not expect for a few members of this splinter group to MURDER THE WIVES, SON'S AND DAUGHTERS of those who Ratted on them. To us such a thing is unconscionable and as Professionals WE DO NOT EVER INVOLVE THE FAMILY MEMBERS OF ANY GROUP MEMBER FROM ANY SIDE IN SUCH ACTIVITIES!!! Needless to say we have a HARD ON for the surviving members of this splinter group....and they know this and are scared to death of being caught by us as we will not just end them....we will make their end seem like an ETERNITY! AboveAlpha
I am still holding out hope I won't have to go. I have been getting notifications often about some supposed new breakthrough in ideology between the sides but every time that is said it all comes crashing down. I feel kinda bad hoping things fall apart because if they do I don't have to go....but I guess I should hope that things work out. Besides I would like to get another SHOT at a few people who deserve a SHOT being taken at them over there! AboveAlpha
Say it ain't so, darn it! (Wow, this political stuff is crazier than I thought.) Well, bon voyage. Don't forget to write. I've been saving this one for a while, and you'll probably hate it. So what, too bad! AboveAlpha: I'm going to retire soon! Sky: Yay! AboveAlpha: I just have one more mission! Sky: Oh. AboveAlpha: Guess what? No danger this time! Sky: Guess who's sleeping on the couch tonight? (Although I leave alternate endings up to you... )
Your facetious final remark shows up the gaping hole in your logic; the problems with land ownership and the gradual diminishment of Palestinian ownership almost guarantee there CAN'T be a proper peace. You mention one Israeli settlement (probably right in the middle of otherwise Palestinian territory) but don't mention the dozens of Palestinian hamlets and farms and villages that are already in the same situation with respect to the rest of Palestine. A map of remaining Palestinian-controlled lands on the West Bank looks like a piece of Swiss Cheese and the Palestinian areas are the holes.
You are right in regard to the WB, I was talking about land inside Israel, the WB is another story and I admit my Gov is trying to gain more land there in oppose to what the PM said (I just read that in Haaretz), and Im against that.
Oh come on. Why don't you just tell her what you tell us? Nothing more nothing less? It seems to work for us. Of course it's different when you're face to face with someone you know and care about. You have to keep from saying the wrong thing, and there's no backspace button..
I just found out today I will most likely be going next week and it is not easy telling Sky as the last time I left she acted all brave and strong but when I got back...and I was only gone for just a little less than a week....I found out she was having massive anxiety attacks. Because of that I have to be very careful how I announce I am going as I love Sky and I don't want to hurt her. Sky is not just a girlfriend....she is without a doubt the most exceptional, intelligent, strong, well educated, capable...woman I have ever known and her interests closely mirror my own. There was one other recently I had hoped to include in our lives but unfortunately that did not pan out but the fact that Sky was capable and more than interested in such a thing testifies to just how complex and strong a women she is. The other day I came home from running 11 miles in extreme cold weather and Sky had a Movie Video waiting for me and some very specific food waiting for me. Now you or others might say...Big Deal....but believe me it was. I had told Sky a story a while back about how I and my Team had been in a country and we had been doing our JOBS and after about 11 days we were exhausted and desperately wanting to go home as those 11 days felt like a year! After 11 days of living in the field and freezing our asses off especially at night I found us a place to crash for the night and the 3 girls who lived in that old home had lost both their father and mother in the fighting and were taking care of their 5 year old male cousin as his parents had been killed in fighting as well. The home was an old farm house and the 3 girls had been doing the best they could farming the land the past season and it was April and it was VERY cold still at night....so after freezing in 15 to 25 degree F. temps at night having a ROOF over our heads for the first time in 11 days of sleeping on the ground and waking up with frost on ones hair and face...well it was like SHANGRI-LA!!! We had rations but the girls made us all a dinner as they were VERY grateful for something we helped them with that had been a huge thorn in their sides for several years so the girls pealed a very large number of potatoes and boiled them and along with 5 large heads of cabbage they took the potatoes and after boiling them sliced them into quarters and took the cabbages which they had sliced into 12 pieces each and boiled and along with those quartered potatoes placed them into a HUGE metal bowl that was about 36 inches across and 24 inches deep and took these very hot vegetables and added about 2 to 3 lbs of softened butter that they had made as they had dairy cows...added salt and pepper.....and served to us on large plates. This might not seem like much to some people but BELIEVE ME....after a person goes through what we had and has not had a hot meal for a while this was better than any Gourmet Dinner!!! The girls had red whine and several bottles of Russian Vodka and they had their 5 year old cousin on POUR DUTY as they told him his job was to make sure my Teams glasses were always full. They had an old TV and VCR and one of my guy's found a video tape and said..."Hey Look! Predator!!!"....which is that Arnold Hollywood Movie about a Special Operations Team very much like WE were that was sent on a JOB into Central American Rain Forest to extract and rescue a few assets that supposedly had their chopper shot down in hostile Communist Territory and as they were tasked to go in and get them they come face to face with this Alien Life Form that is hunting them. We all sat down in front of this ancient TV and as one of my Team Members stuck the VCR tape in and pressed played and after waiting a few seconds a LARGE HOOT AND A HOLLER went up as my Team saw that the VCR Tape worked and again although this might not sound like it is some big deal to some members....BELIEVE ME...it WAS a big deal for my guys and myself as well as when you are far away from home in hostile territory something as simple as getting to eat a hot meal with a roof over your head and watch a English Language Movie never mind one that is about a Special Operations Team battling Communists and an Alien....and then being able after the movie was over to take A HOT SHOWER.....well it was as if we DIED AND WENT TO HEAVEN. I had told Sky this story and had mentioned that some day I would like to cook the exact same meal to see if it really was as good as I remembered or if it simply seemed so good because of the circumstances. Anyways....I got home that day weeks after I told Sky this story back in March and it was now April and it was an exceptionally COLD day and I had just finished by alternating day 11 mile run as I run 6 miles one day and 11 miles the next 7 days a week.....and I was FREEZING....and as I walked in the door to my home I smelled something I had not smelled since that day with my Team as because I must stay in top physical condition at all times I almost NEVER eat high carbohydrate foods such as Potatoes....so the smell is not something I will come home to in my home. Sky said...SURPRISE!!! She explained to me that after listening to my story she wanted to recreate that day and night for me so I could determine whether the food really was as good as it seemed that day and after taking a hot shower Sky sat me down in front of the TV and set up a TV tray and put upon it a HUGE plate of boiled and sliced into pieces POTATOES AND CABBAGE that she had completely drenched in BUTTER and seasoned with simple sea salt and cracked black pepper. Sky also placed on my TV tray a small glass of Cold Stoli Vodka and as well she also placed a simple none crystal glass of Red Burgundy Wine. Sky then said....and for your viewing pleasure....Sky then used the DVD Remote and PREDATOR started playing on my TV!!!! I was....TOUCHED....and I mean I really got emotional which is something I am NOT known for. For someone...ANYONE....to have not only listened to a story I told them and REMEMBERED how important that story was to me and REMEMBERED all the details of that story and then to REPRODUCE all the things that were important to me to RELIVE.....well....when Sky did that I could not suppress a TEAR coming out of one eye and I am a guy who never cries even when I have had to use DUCT TAPE to seal up a deep wound!!! By the way.....the Potatoes and Cabbage WERE THAT GOOD!!! AboveAlpha
Yes, it sounds like Sky is a keeper. I also like the sound of that potato and cabbage recipe. I'll have to try it sometime. And, I hope that whatever you do will lead to the Palestinians and Israelis finally working something out. It's about time!
I told Sky today. She acted brave but I know better. I will probably be gone by early next week so hopefully I will catch you later. AboveAlpha
Ok, well, good luck... I really can't think about anything else to say about that trip. But I did try the potatoes and cabbage and it was good. Thanks again for sharing. I also hope Sky is okay, and that she doesn't sneak onto your account and get your account banned. (Okay, I promise, this Is the last time I'll bring that up.)
