Woman Dies After Second-Trimester Abortion at Planned Parenthood

Perfectly said.

I am pro-choice, but personally I am staunchly against abortion.

Life is too precious.

 

Well if we are dredging up old news.....

This is what the right wing radical nuts want to happen here.

 

Basic biology.

Human development...not elephant, not ostrich

Human



Pro-choice is defending the murder of a human in their developmental stage.

 

OK ... so let's say your opinion is really free of any religion nonsense ... when is for your any abortion OK, or is any abortion at all forbidden?

Example: the raped woman, mother and wife becomes pregnant out of this crime ... is she allowed for abortion or not?

 

While the "intent" of childbirth may not be to kill, it does all too frequently. Embarrassingly frequently in the US. Denying safe abortion to women may not be an "intent" to kill, but women are just as dead.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/19/us-maternal-mortality-rate_n_5340648.html

The U.S. Is The Only Developed Nation With A Rising Maternal Mortality Rate

American maternal mortality rates rose over a 20-year period at a rate that places the U.S. in the company of war-torn countries like Afghanistan and impoverished nations like Chad and Swaziland, according to a new report.

The findings were recently published in the Lancet by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, a global health research center at the University of Washington. They comprise over 20 years of maternal health data from around the globe. The report shows that there are 18.5 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in the U.S., up from 12.4 deaths per 100,000 births in 1990.

 

The zygote/embryo/fetus is human.

However, it is not a person.

 

The first thing that needs to be discussed is the admission...a death is taking place.

"Pro-choice" masks the reality of what is taking place. A fetus is removed from the womb, and in the process killed.

Even German law, which allows abortion, recognizes what's going on.

The first step to any sort of dialog as to when an abortion should be allowed, for example in the case of rape or a woman's health, is to acknowldege what's going on.

We can have an honest debate about the cases of rape, or if the pregnancy is threatening the life of the woman. However in 99% of abortions, at least in America, this is not the case. Typically, a 20-something female...more often than not a self-identifying Christian woman, who is unmarried...gets pregnant and does not wish to have a child at that time. In most cases it's related to finances.

The vast majority of females seeking an abortion are healthy and the pregnancy has yet to be causing significant health hazards to them. They are seeking an abortion to kill the fetus because they don't want a baby. They don't want to be pregnant..

It's not health related, it's not rape...they had sex, got pregnant and don't want to be pregnant.

Aborition is a "fix-it." It does not address the behavior which is why 40% of females have had more than one abortion. It is simply another form of birth control.

So, if we are to have an honest dialog on this topic, it should begin with the acknowledgement it's purpose, abortion's purpose, is to kill.

Killing something, particularly a fellow human in their developmental stage is not the same thing as killing a mosquito. This is a human, there are ethical considerations to killing something of our own species. We are devaluing our own lives by treating an abortion as nothing more than a medical procedure.

 

You: ""Of course your next argument will be...abortion is not really killing anything."""


I have never heard or read anyone ever saying abortion is not killing anything..... it IS killing the fetus and that is the purpose.


You just didn't have a good response to :

Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post

Childbirth is traumatic for the body of the host. It is fourteen times more likely to result in death from childbirth than from abortion.""".......

so you just went off sideways into blathering....

- - - Updated - - -

SHOW ME THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THE FETUS IS NOT KILLED IN ABORTION.

 

Sure, that abortion is not the same like a nose correction etc. is clear and should never be like this. But the general problem we have first is, since which stage we can say that there is life which needs to be secured etc. … no matter which morality is telling this or denying it.
This alone is an endless discussion at least and after xyz weeks it is, is the usual practice.

Secondly, that most unwanted pregnant issues are self-inflicted or can be rated as being self-inflicted. One reason is lacking sexual education of teenagers by family or public institutions like schools. But to improve this situation is again a problem, because it can earn much religious conflicts as we all know! Pure stupidity and recklessness are the other main reasons … but in all we mill around and come back to the point from which point on we are talking about life in the stomach of a woman?

Aside this general question, it is still the clear problem who has the right to decide here if abortion or not! The opinions are here so incredible different in their two extreme wings, it is unbelievable.

 

I can hardly wait to see you explain why it's a person an hour after birth but not an hour before.

 

It is a person the minute it's BORN.

And YES, there are major changes that take place , it doesn't just slide out.

 

One extreme proposed by Anti-Choicers is absolutely no abortions allowed...abortion made illegal ...


Pro-Choice is not extreme, it merely wants to maintain the rights of women to their own bodies, to be able to choose.

 

Abortion in Israel is legal under certain circumstances, with the approval of a committee for pregnancy termination. Approval for an abortion in Israel by a termination committee is given if the woman is unmarried, because of age (if the woman is under the age of 17 - the legal marriage age in Israel - or over the age 40), the pregnancy was conceived under illegal circumstances (rape, statutory rape, etc.) or an incestuous relationship, birth defects, risk of health to the mother, and life of the mother.


In my personal view, i agree that a late term abortion mostly seems wrong

However, i feel that until a fetus is born, the difficult decision rests with the mother.... No matter how i feel about it

 

You're not really asking for an honest acknowledgement about "what's going on." What you're wanting is an expression of horror....women want to control their bodies, their lives, oh HORROR!

And that's enough information. She doesn't want to be pregnant, so the reasons aren't anyone's business. It is not up to strangers to validate a woman's decision, to decide whether her reasons are good enough, or to press their moral values upon her.

What's wrong with "fixing" a mistake? I know some who think forcing a woman to bear an unwanted child will teach her a lesson, she will somehow learn that she should not choose to have sex, but they are ignoring the fact that in the whole of human history, that has not worked. You are revealing in your statement that it is women's behavior that is your concern, not the poor little innocent baby.

If we are to have an honest dialogue on this topic, you are going to have to address the true source of your own concern, and that is controlling women's behavior. You are also going to have to learn the difference between "human" (adjective) and "A human" (noun). You are also going to have to recognize that we are devaluing women's lives when we treat them as unwilling incubators.

 

If a woman is raped or gets pregnant in an incestuous relationship, or if the pregnancy is a serious threat to her health; these are ethical discussions to have. It is unethical to force a woman who is raped, becomes pregnant against her will to carry the child to term. Catholics believe that no matter what abortion is wrong. I'm Catholic but I depart from the Church teachings on that point. A woman should not be forced to have a reminder of a traumatic event for 9 months, and then have to give the child up for adoption. There is a bonding process after a child birth, and it is unethical to force a woman who was raped, to go through even more pain.

In the case where a woman's health is in jeopardy, again it is unethical to force her to carry the child to term that may literally threaten her life.

This is directly agains Catholic teachings, and so I have to deal with that if I'm calling myself a Catholic.

Years ago I loaned a friend $200 to get his girl friend an abortion, This was a typical case, a young woman gets pregnant, it is unplanned and unwanted; bad timing, she aborts it Problem solved, be more careful next time. No big deal really. I didn't feel any guilt at all. I too, beleived this tiny little fetus isn't a person, it can't feel pain and it would have been unwanted in life.

I've changed as I've gotten older. I realize that I was a little tiny fetus, just like the one I loaned a friend money to have aborted. There is no distinction except, my Mom wanted me and wanted a child. Npbody wanted this tiny little unborn human, nobody placed any value on his or her life. it was a problem and the way to get rid of the problem is to kill it.

I'm just one story out of millions. Odds are someone reading this was involved in some sort of abortion story.

I'm not here to condemn and judge. Society, for the most part, has accepted abortion as not the same thing as killing an actual person. What then do we about unwanted pregnancies? Well, for starters, take sex more seriously that under certain circumstances a life can be created from it. It does not get any more serious than that. We all tend to view sex as recreational rather than pro-creational. This is the core issue really.

 

A male plays an equal role in the decision to abort a pregnancy. More often the male has simply walked away from the female leaving her little choice in the matter. I'm not giving a free pass to males. In fact males more often pressure the female to abort...the male pressures the female into the sexual act more often than not also.

It just so happens the female carries the child, that's basic biology. However the decision to abort, in most cases, involves a male who walked away..not my problem, or a male that encourages the decision to abort. Particularly with child support looming. The male wants no part of that. Abort.

My goal is not to "punish" the woman. Again the very core of this issue is pregnancy prevention. Males and females..both need to take it seriously. Choosing to be sexually active, particularly where intercourse is involved is SERIOUS business; a life can be created from it. Does anyone even take it seriously anymore? Is it just something to do on a boring Friday night and in a worst case scenariio we'll just abort.

The underlying problem is avoiding responsibility. This is never a good thing, to kill something because of an irresponsible decison made by both the male and female.

Take sex seriously, I don't think that's too much to ask. I have never gotten a woman pregnant which led her to make the decision to abort the fetus. It can be done believe it or not.

 

Yes, and after about 10, 000 years of humans bonking like rabbits W H Y do you think they'll change??????


Sex IS recreational! SURPRISE! Lots of people do it for FUN!

 

Thre is sex, and there is irresponsible sex. Abortion was taboo not all that long ago. An unmarried woman did not want the shame of being unmarried and pregnant. Thanks, in no small measure to my generation, the baby boomers...the sexual revolution changed all of that. Yet another reason why we're considered the Worst generation..yes it's all about us. We gave the middle finger to social convention. We like to screw, and you can't stop us with your religious morals. Sexual freedom for us all.

Of course with sexual freedom, a consequence is pregnancy. You see nature does not care whether you want to be pregnant or not. Unprotected intercourse creates a new life in certain circumstances. I suppose the baby boomers forgot about that part of the sexual revolution. Whoops, we can't have that, a baby will ruin our fun, babies poop and cry a lot. They are expensive...no a baby will not do. A baby threatens our sexual revolution. Hey, we can medically remove the fetus! 1973...big day for the Sexual Revolution! Abortion is legal! Let's have an orgy to celebrate, if we get someone pregnant, who cares...we'll abort.

A little dramatic license, but my comments are not far from reality. My generation, was all about themselves. The taboo was gone. Getting a young woman pregnant was no longer a big deal, it could be fixed.

The movie..Fast Times at Ridgmont High. Yep, supposedly my generation's coming of age film...you guessed it, a young woman gets an abortion. No more taboo, hey it's ok, abortions aren't so bad.

In my parent's era, it would be shameful...so they were more careful. Accidents happened, but not like the FLOOD of "accidents" since the baby boomers decided sex is basically a casual thing. 53 million abortions since Roe v. Wade is indicative that the social taboo is gone.

This is not a good thing, maybe some of you are applauding it...Hooray! Females are sexually free!

I fail to see any good from it...as social conventiions are torn down, nothing good has replaced them.

One third of females in the U.S. will have an abortion by the time they turn 45.

I fail to see any good derived from this statistic.

 

That shame you are talking about is largely to blame for the illegal abortions and the loss of women's lives. Studies have shown that "shaming" does not stop people from having sex. From the 1940s on and probably before, studies show that 95% of people had pre-marital sex. Sex isn't different, it's just more open.

I doubt that many are that cavalier about it.

Was it really better back when ONE mistake could ruin a woman's entire life?

There are no more abortions since RvW than there were before.

Maybe you think a little more about "the good ole days." Do you really want to go back to forced marriages, rushed marriages, girls being sent to "visit" auntie for six months, illegal abortions, forced adoptions, children labeled "bastards", all those teen-age marriages interrupting education?

 

Between 1969 and 1973, the number of abortions exploded. The real cause was that by 1970, abortion had already become liberalized in 15 states. RvW was more a sign of the times than anything else, though it just further encouraged even more women to get abortions.

 

No it's not. Nice try at diversion.

Most pro-choice people, such as myself, are pro abortion if the mothers life is in danger.

Stop trying to equate elective abortions with medically necessitated ones to avoid the topic.

 

Neither is a fetus moments before birth. Should we allow abortion through all phases of gestation?

 

Oh yes indeedy doo it is. The GOP had bat crap crazy radical 2016 hopefuls on that there stage...or at least hopefuls that pander to bat crap crazy radical religious zealots.

One of these guys is even considered a frontrunner...

Scott Walker Says In GOP Debate He Doesn’t Support Abortion If A Woman’s Life Is At Risk
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2015/08/06/3689042/scott-walker-abortion-debate/

 

It's not as simple as this.

Why does the US have some of the highest teen and unwed pregnancies in the developed world and some of the highest rates of STI? How readily available is contraception? Can one walk into a convenience store for example and buy condoms? Is abstinence still being taught as part of sex education?