Would YOU let the 50 Orlando gays into heaven?

I was unaware you know all things. How do you know they were innocent. And if the Pharaoh would have listened to Moses and released God's people, they would have been spared. God warned him, he did not listen. Thus the pharaoh got them killed.

Your blaming God for the death of the first born in Egypt. That means you know God exists.

 

We are to not push it on people, yet at the same time spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's a hard line to walk, and requires understanding.

 

But by telling them about it, you go from a 100% chance of getting into heaven, to, statistically, about a 25-30% chance of them getting into heaven (based on the 25-30% of people who are currently Christians)! So if you love people the thing to do would be to advocate that Christians keep quiet, just to be safe. So it sounds like Christianity has a pretty screwed up system to me. Can we agree that you should urge Christians to not risk possibly people going to hell by telling them of Jesus? It would seem the loving thing to do.

 

Wow. Just wow. Your assumption is that children, yes, children, were likely guilty (not innocent.) A person who would believe that is ripe for falling for stories of talking snakes, a talking donkey, a talking invisible zombie, etc.

It brings up an interesting question: what would the Bible have had to have written, hypothetically, for you to say that the Bible was a lie, or was a con, etc.? What would be so bad, or so wrong, that you'd say "whoa, that's not true, so I'm going to now believe that the Bible is a lie or a con". Me, if the Bible implied the world was 6000 years old I'd of course say it was a con-job, but what would it hypothetically have to say for YOU to believe that, and leave the religion? Hypothetically. Or will you believe ANYTHING if it promises you that you'll survive your own death?

 

We can at least agree that the invisible man in the sky should have killed Pharoah, and not killed the innocent children who had nothing to do with Pharoah's decision, right? Would YOU have done that? I would have - at least in preference to killing children, that is. What about you?

 

You and I don't know all things, but we do know more than Jesus - we do know to take 15 seconds out of our lives to say this simple sentence: "the Bible got it dead wrong when it comes to gays - we should love gays as equals and not harm/kill gays like the Bible approves of." Jesus didn't do that, but I just wrote that, and you can write that you agree with that statement. I know you love enough to do that.

Can we at least agree on that, my friend?

 

You'll bask in "paradise", but I'll receive the most opposite of that imaginable....and what, because you just happened to win the celestial lottery and pick the one "god" out of thousands and thousands on offer that (apparently would be) the actual true "god"? You deserve better than me because you are not necessarily more moral than me, are not necessarily more giving than me, and don't necessarily help the world more than me....you are just better than me at picking unproven super-heroes? Kind of like a guy who wins a Star Trek trivia contest at a Star Trek convention - he's not better than me, just better at one little thing than me. That makes no sense! That's not FAIR! I can't imagine you can actually say that "god is fair". Can you say that?

 

Like the Godfather WARNED that shopkeeper to pay the "protection money" or bad things would happen to them, but did the shopkeeper listen, NO, HE DIDN'T, so darn it, the Godfather HAD to have him swim with the fishes! What other choice did the Godfather have!? It's not the Godfather's fault, just like it's not God's fault, right jrr? Right?

 

Abomination is WORSE than a sin. I'm having a hard time believing you didn't knew that. Lesbian would be included with the abomination of homosexuality. As for transgender, the Bible says men aren't to wear women's clothing and vice versa. It also speaks against feminine men.

 

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Here's the way I see it, not that anyone really cares, but if a supreme divinity does exist, logic tells me it would be magnitudes above what us 3D creatures are hardwired to understand. Heaven, if such a dimension or alternate reality exists, judging who deserves to go there would be far beyond our limited human skills to understand. I cannot imagine myself as an abstract entity who is infinitely far beyond a human to understand. Given that our dualistic reality (life/death, etc, etc) hinges on two opposites, I'll err on the side of Life, as opposed to Death. To me, looking at it my way, how can one apply our subjective human standards on something as ethereal or multi-dimensional as a soul going to a place that is controlled by 3D humans? It doesn't matter if they are gay, it matters that puny humans think they have all the answers.

If heaven exists, none of us is qualified to say who will go there.

 

Did you seriously take a paycheck to do nothing but lie?

Jesus does not call for the killing of gays. He told us not to kill anybody, get that through your head. Radical islam or in the name of allah, pulls the Orlando event and you blame Christians. Grow up, use your head.

 

No, Jesus is one of the most hateful people to have ever lived.....if the main book about YOU, jrr, said in multiple places (so they really really mean it) to kill gays, you are of course moral enough to, over 2000 years, and especially if you claimed to be a moral teacher/leader(!), simply speak up and say that that book got it dead wrong. With great power comes great responsibility. You are better than Jesus because you'd of course speak up. He knew/knows what the texts say, of course. He obviously doesn't care enough about the billions of gay people who have ever lived to take a mere 15 seconds out of his life to say that (and save untold numbers of lives) - but YOU would if you were in his shoes, so you are far more moral than Jesus, my friend.
Stop selling yourself short. You. Are. Better. Than. Jesus.

Have. A. Great. Day. (I. Need. To. Stop. Doing. This.)

 

The Christian texts' approval of killing gays only serves to empower the other Abrahamic faith's texts approval of killing gays. Can we agree that Christians saying the Bible got it wrong when it comes to gays would be a kind, helpful, loving thing to say, in an effort to reduce the zeal that Muslims have towards killing gays? Can we at least agree on that? Keep in mind that a "yes" answer is much much shorter than some long drawn out deflection that I'm THINKING you might type (but hopefully I'm wrong about that.)

 

Jesus was a violent man as he allegedly said "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." Gandhi would not have said that - Gandhi wasn't perfect, but was certainly more peaceful than a man would would say "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Jesus was also uncaring, and unloving, as Jesus wouldn't even let his followers bury their dead parents or say farewell to their families before abandoning them (Luke 9:59-62)

I'm pretty sure you'd let people bury their dead, right, jrr (because you are more caring/loving/kind than Jesus)? I would, how about you?

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So show us where in the Bible Jesus says that the OT is wrong, and that we should love gays as equals. I say we should love gays as equals, you believe that we should love gays as equals, the law says that we should treat gays as equals....so surely you can show us where the vaunted saviour of mankind said the same thing, no?

 

But now that world population is an issue to be dealt with, I think we can agree that being gay is actually a plus for the planet, since gays, by themselves, as such, don't have as many children of their own as non-gays, so that helps the planet. So gays are harmless of course, and also are better for the planet. So the Bible got it wrong when it says in multiple places that they should be KILLED, can we agree, Mac? If not, then I'd claim that Modern Secular Humanism is better for the planet than Christianity is.

God's "solution" to world over-population would likely be to kill the excess people just like his previous work of killing people with his "flood". Not a good solution. Too barbaric.

 

Fantastic! Then you'll have no question coming back on your next post and telling us how you've removed the parts of your Bible that say to kill gays then, right? And the part (Romans IIRC) that says that gays are such scum that they don't get into heaven.. Fantastic! Let us know how that goes.

 

Tell me where it says to kill gays. You cannot because it does not. "Let him without sin cast the first stone." No man is without sin, thus no stone shall be cast. Thus do not kill anybody. "Love your enemies, pray for them". Call out evil when you see it. And remove yourself from it.

Jesus did not come to abolish the OT. He came to fulfill it.

 

Abominations are destruction for the planet. A nations behavior will be reflected in the land. A nation full of abominations or sins, will have a useless land. No crops, massive natural disasters, plagues and others. This is self evident all through man's history of nations, civilizations, societies, that fell.

Sin is destruction, destruction is the result of sin.

 

Yes, you give quotes. Anyone can cut and paste. The key criticism is that you give selected sentences totally out of context.

Its like taking this phrase out of the Constitution "provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States" and think that Congress is supposed to provide all the necessities for people - food, housing, clothes, a car, a computer, tv, iphone, etc.

You have to take it in context. And you do not, you misrepresent every quote you use.

 

So please inform us as to what acceptable "context" an all-loving, all-powerful, all-caring god would approve of beating both male and female slaves with a rod (yes, beating humans with a rod!) as long as the death drags out past about 48 hours or so:
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

PS if you're moral enough and despise slavery enough to have removed this verse from your particular Bible (I assume that you are - so it's unfamiliar to you), then here's a link to view it from the other, obviously less moral Christian's, versions: http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-1.htm

 

Can you condemn those Christians who make a causal relationship between people being gay and major catastrophies such as 9/11 or floods, etc., like Pat Robertson did with gays and 9/11? Science shows us their is no correlation, period.

 

I bet if YOU had written the Bible it would be clearer, and more precise, and for example not had over 500 contradictions in it: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/number.html

I bet you would be a better author than the Biblical authors, so I believe in you more than the Biblical authors.

 

See, if the Bible wasn't so insane I would not have the incredible amount of ammunition to work with in the first place, such as the insanity of "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." http://biblehub.com/exodus/22-18.htm

I think we can agree that witches are not real (so Jesus, who never condemned this stuff in the main book about him, is obviously not actually all-knowing), and that killing them is immoral, can't we? Insane AND immoral all in one short verse. After all, if a book advocates FELONIES then it's a horrific book, right?

I believe I deserve a book that doesn't teach me and my family to commit felonies....do you? If not, then I invite you to raise your expectations of yourself to the level of Modern Secular Humanism.

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So those starving Ethiopians, they deserve their fate, they brought this on themselves by not being properly religious, that's what you're saying!? So we probably don't want to help them out a bunch because it's kinda their own fault, right?

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If I can show you were it approves of killing gays, and that gays are such scum that Jesus and pals won't let them into "heaven", will you condemn the Bible for saying that?

 

Yes, Mt 5:17-19. So Jesus was not moral enough to condemn slavery, because he approved of them, per Mt 5:17-19.....no wonder white southern racists used the Bible to justify the bloodiest (to Americans) war in US history, the US Civil War - Jesus approved of slavery, and never spoke out against it. How much blood does Jesus have on his hands?

Jrr, if you were in Jesus' shoes, would you, like me, have taken a mere 15 seconds out of your entire lifetime to say "write this down....tell people to phase out slavery w/in the next 30 years." I would have, of course, but what about you? 15 seconds to end some of the worst crime in human history....seems like it would have been worth it, no? Can we agree?

 

Where in the Bible does it say that an abomination is worse than a sin? And, if we aren't supposed to commit abominations, don't you think that would have been included with the 10 Commandments or the 7 Noahide Commandments so that people wouldn't do it? Got news for you, homosexuality isn't mentioned in the Bible as much as you'd like to believe, and I'm still waiting on those verses where Jesus spoke out against homosexuality. Got news for you, He didn't.

I also noticed that you gave me examples of other things, yet you failed to provide the verses.

And no, Jesus isn't the only way to a good place in the afterlife. If you're a Buddhist, you attain Nirvana, if you're a Taoist, you rejoin the Creator, also known as the Tao. If you're a Hindu, then depending on how you lived this life, you will be reborn into a better one if you did well, and a worse one if you did bad, until you finally learn what you were put here to learn, and then you go to their version of Heaven. BTW................none of those 3 belief systems condemn homosexuality.

Besides.................didn't Jesus say that there were many rooms in His Father's house? That was Him talking about Heaven and how each of us will get our own heaven when we die.

And.....................because I believe that God or the Creator or Higher Power or whatever you want to call It, is too big to be defined by just one dogma or just one belief system, I kinda think that He's got a place for everyone eventually, after you've cleaned yourself of the dirt (sin) of this world.