You might be more moral than you realize

If your most loyal “children” built an entire building to glorify YOU, and counted on you to keep them safe, and were even in the act of praising you for being so great – in that same building, when an evil racist who said he wanted to start a race war methodically started to gun down 9 of your innocent “children” (being targeted only because of their skin color), if you had super-powers would YOU have answered their prayers - as they screamed out your name to help them(!), and helped them out when they needed you the most in their entire wonderful lives? Or would you have sat on your hands and just watched it unfold?

Question: if you were in that position, would you have used your (supposed) super-powers to answer your most loyal “children’s” desperate pleas to you to save their innocent lives from pure evil.....more “yes”, or more “no”?

I’d like to think that if I was in that position that I’m caring enough to say “yes”, and be reliable enough that my "children" could count on me when they need me the most. After all, if I wasn’t even willing to help them in this vital life or death situation, where good and evil were so clearly defined, then I’d likely never help them with any other request that was lower in priority than this....ever.

If you answer “more yes”, then it can be argued that you are even more moral, in this life and death issue, than the person that more Americans feel is the #1 “most moral person” to have ever lived! You might answer “more no”, and that’s fine, but if you answered “more yes”, then the next time you look in the mirror realize that you are probably more moral than you even realize.

Your thoughts?

 

Is this in practice different to your other threads on moral dilemmas?

 

So according to the OP, nobody who was in a church would ever die of anything if they cried out for help?

People seriously think like this?

 

I'll take your reply as "more no". But don't feel too bad, as most people, at least, say, Christians can't answer "more yes" to this question, because Jesus has obviously failed them as a moral teacher. It's really a simple question: would you, if you had Jesus' alleged super-powers, where people where worshipping YOU, and in a building built to worship YOU, and crying out YOUR name "help us Jesus!", in a clear case of good vs. evil (Jesus' innocent "children" vs. an evil racist who's manifesto said he wanted to start a race war), have intervened in Charleston SC? If Jesus didn't intervene here, then he likely will NEVER - if he understands priorities that is - help people who pray to him for any thing that's less of a priority than saving their life in a church.
I would have intervened....apparently you and Swennson can't say that you would have.

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I'll take your reply as "more no".
I wonder what forum member crank would reply?

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So what WAS the allegedly all-powerful, all-caring, doing at the time that was more important than this? Creating more "acts of god", such as tornadoes and floods, that kill innocent people, probably. He couldn't tear himself away from that, I guess.

So more "yes", or more "no", Spooky, which is it?

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It's time to stop giving Jesus/Mohammad/Moses a pass.

 

You are dodging my question.

So according to you, anyone that cries out to Jesus, in any circumstance, should be saved?

Well I suppose that is one way to cure cancer, and death, and unemployment, and divorce.

lol

 

Pot, meet kettle.

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The constant inability of Christians to answer simple moral questions like this clearly, clearly shows that Jesus is a failed moral teacher. A failure.

 

More dodging........its fun to make you guys scramble back into the woodwork.

 

The reason that Christians can't answer this simple question with "more yes" is because by doing that they'd appear to be more moral than Jesus, in this important life and death moral question. So clearly belief in Jesus limits one, morally, unlike Modern Secular Humanism.....so one price to be paid for believing in Jesus is to accept a moral limit. Modern Secular Humanism does not accept moral limits.

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No "scrambling" here.
I never said I was a guy.

 

You do realize that religious people will refer to the freedom of choice. In this case, the freedom of choice of the gunner, and the punishment he'll receive after...

 

So Jesus never interferes with free will when he's prayed to.....so of course he lied then, so of course he's not really divine as advertised, and therefore they are not going to survive their own deaths like Jesus promised....so they are delusional, apparently.

 

God tells us that death can come at anytime and to be prepared........He never says He will rescue you in every circumstance. God never says anywhere that He will rescue us from death but to be prepared for it.

Its not rocket science here.

 

No I would of turned him into a black man the night before. I like the idea that if I was a god I was a sightly mischievous one!

 

But it also appears that, according to the bible quotes below, that we don't have free will, so Christianity is a very confused belief system:

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. Jeremiah 10:23

And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. Romans 9:11-22

He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. Ephesians 1:4-5

God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 2 Timothy 1:9

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation. Jude 4

 

You mean the voices in the heads of madmen tell us that.
Moses, for example, was insane, as he had more people killed (3000) than even Bin Laden (2977) did on 9/11, because Moses heard voices ("god") in his head.
"The Levites obeyed Moses' command, and about 3,000 people died that day." http://biblehub.com/exodus/32-28.htm

 

Excellent: you are creative and more ethical than Jesus!
You are more ethical than most Christians happen to be (whether you are a Christian or not), and judging by Jesus' clear lack of compassion in Charleston, you are more ethical than Jesus - but that's not saying much, because Jesus even approved of slavery, yes SLAVERY: http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl2.htm (so obviously Jesus was not divine/all-knowing.)

 

A "more no" answer to the OP.

 

Why such an aggressive tone?

I think it makes sense from a Christian perspective, doesn't it? Gunner has the freedom of choice, the victims go to heaven, the bad guy goes to hell eventually.
Is there something I mention which isn't according to Christian beliefs?

 

That's not my question, my question was would YOU have answered their cries for help ("help us Spooky!!"). Richard Dawkins would have. Sam Harris would have. How about you?

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More yes, or more no, to the OP? I'm asking you.

 

More "yes", or more "no", to the OP?

 

I am an Atheist. The OP isn't direct at me. I was just pointing out that for Christians it wouldn't be a yes or no answer, since the argument would be free will.

 

Your religious affiliation, or lack thereof, is not a requirement to answer the OP obviously. I'm not delusional like religious people, and I can of course answer "YES!"....w/out hesitation. So can Richard Dawkins.
More "yes", or more "no", mihapiha??

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You're dancing around the question....I think I know why.

 

Moses was not God, just a tool He used to spread His message.

 

Good for you.

I'm not dancing around the question, I answered it. But since you were looking for a "yes" or "no" answer, my reply might be just a little too complex for you to comprehend.

 

Christians, thanks to Jesus calling them "sinners", and people "evil" (http://biblehub.com/matthew/7-11.htm), have such a low self-esteem that they just can't bring themselves to answer "more yes" to the OP. They believe that they could never rise above the moral level of Jesus (by helping the people in that church in South Carolina that Jesus steadfastly refused to help.) They feel they need "saving" by Jesus.....and if they can be more moral than Jesus then that messes up the whole paradigm, obviously. Jesus has distorted their minds, morally, as their constant inability to simply answer "more yes" in these examples clearly shows.

But there is a better way, fortunately.

 

"More yes".......it's really not that hard.

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Moses was indeed a tool.