Can a Christian lose their salvation? Or, are there former Christians?

To Bishadi

All good verses.

Quantrill

 

can you show where JESUS explained that?

otherwise your imagination is on overdrive!

no wonder he couldnt listen to jesus' charge not to call him jesus the christ: perhaps he was still like you

 

Sorry that award goes to you. Make some sense so I can address your post.

Quantrill

 

i know............

the bible can make a liar out of most any religious wingnut

For example; did you see the overdrive rant as an explaination as to what jesus said (per se) to peter aka, maybe not/maybe so....simon.....

my point............ the thread opener is a shame and proven so, in a couple minutes.


ie.... jesus aint saving sick sob's from being lying sob's........... otherwise charles manson is as 'saved' as you and ted haggard (same class)

 

truth dont make sense to liars

i posted items that shared peter was 'satan' per bible

and i posted items that shared if one is per se of the beliefs and goes back, he is worse than if he did not know.............

i guess your reading comprehension is limited to what you like and not the responsibility behind following the rules

ie..... no false witness, means you can even lie ONCE and get away with it.

 

Sorry, I havent' seen you prove anything.

Quantrill

 

Do you want me to go back to the scriptures that I've quoted many times about "the natural man not understanding the things of the Spirit for they are spiritually appraised?!"

But you dont care, since you are a 'gotcha tool' of the enemy' and not serious about understanding spiritual things....you are spiritually 'unreachable' and "unteachable." You are your own know it all....as in a fool 'in' his folly...but, unfortunately having that truth exposed wont stop the regurgitation coming down your pike.

 

Oops! you have me confused with someone else. I make that mistake too sometimes.

 

I believe this view to be misguided. Nobody goes to hell on a technicality or based on a single decision. The only truly unpardonable sin is willful, ongoing rejection of the Holy Spirit as demonstrated when the pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzabub. Too many good Christians are held in a bondage of fear that they might have accidentally committed the unpardonable sin much like a tax filer might accidentally break the law by not declaring a gambling gain as income. In truth, the Holy Spirit is far more forbearing and patient than even the most patient of saints. For as long as we draw breath, we will always hear Him knocking at our door.

 

Well, that one unpardonable sin, is a single decision of the part of the person who commits such an act.

 

I agree with Inc's link about 'back sliding' vs. 'falling back.'

'Back sliding' is NOT denying Christ & His work on the cross. It is but a relapse in the walk, putting Christ on the 'back burner' as such.

But 'falling back" as the scripture states as "not being worthy of the kingdom of God' is a total rejection of the Spirit and the things of God, and is not a slip, but a string of conscious decisions to reject the Holy Spirit!! As scripture also states, "the Holy Spirit will not always strive with man'...the extent of only God knows..

 

Excellent portrayal of the authority vested in Christians to be judges of the acts of people. Because in judging those acts (behaviors) we are judging that spirit that is the driving force behind the act. Most excellent OD.

 

Once your in - YOU ARE IN FOR LIFE AND THERE AFTER!!!!!

There is no escape, do not pass go, or anything of the sort... I forgot where, and I am not going to look it up, but once you give it up to the Man, it's a done deal. Then as it states is what and how you do after that what kind of life you will live in Heaven.

BUT - Remember this... Most those who "say" they are no longer Christian's, never were in the first place. Just because your father is a Pastor, you go to church every Sunday, You've been Baptized at birth, have a Christian family, or say your prayers at night - or all the above - DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN!!

Thus, some may think they falling out of something they never had to begin with...

 

A BIG AMEN on that one DBM aka FMS

 

I think you get the point. OSAS (once saved always saved) defenders just can't lose. Either somebody is a Christian and remains so for their entire life, or they were never Christian to begin with. They've set up for themselves a system to where they can't be wrong, just like the "climate change" environmentalists who are prepared to blame any change in climate on man. They don't even call it global warming now because they're hedging their bets. OSAS defenders are right even when they're wrong.

 

I totally agree with this 'one' statement: "You cant LOSE your salvation." It doesnt just fall away and gets lost!

Other than that, I'll let God be the final judge of the hearts of men.

 

Can't lose it, but you can forsake it. The OSAS adherents purposely couch the debate in terms of losing one's salvation to try and sidestep the issue of free will. They want to frame their opponants as suggesting that God will revoke salvation based on somebody's sin or other criteria. That's not the case at all. Can OSAS demostrate biblically that at some point in the salvation transaction, man lost his free will? No, they cannot.

 

Well, if by a 'system' you mean Scripture supports and upholds the eternal security of a Christian, then yes. We can't lose.

And if that 'system' is that sound, then perhaps it would behoove others to look into it.

Quantrill

 

No one is trying to 'couch the debate' in anything. Simply giving the understanding of it as I see it in the Scriptures. No one is side stepping what you call 'free will'. There is no free will, really. Only a will. But your will does not come into play until Gods Spirit opens your eyes to Christ.

Quantrill

 

Yes you are trying to couch the debate. Be intellectually honest about the armenian point of view by using the word "forsake" instead of "lose" because nobody believes that salvation can be lost. You're also intentionally sidestepping the issue that after "God's spirit opens your eyes to Christ" and a decision is made to convert, somehow that person is locked in, having forever after subverted his free will to his decision.

 

Agreed. Some use the term 'lose' as in misplacing something (or even temporarily by mistake forgetting where it was!). It all comes down to a conscious decision made with deliberate thought that is evident to God, who 'knows the hearts of men," and therefore can render fair & just judgement.

No outward religious ritual will seal one, but the thoughts & intentions of the heart are open B4 God to evaluate a person's spiritual condition.