Dare I suggest gun reform?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by wombat, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. trucker

    trucker Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    laser weapons and pulse guns [​IMG] will be coming out soon at a gun shop near yah, what are you going to do about technology advancing?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  2. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    I agree 100%. People in the US are so darned stubborn, that they refuse to look at other countries, and say, "Wow, they do that better than us!" We're that way with gun control. We're that way with health care.
     
  3. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why does anyone need.....? My first car in High School was an old Opel that did a top speed of only 100 KPH. The safety and environmental Nazis could argue that no one, aside from race car drivers, the cops and military and other elites, would need a car that goes over 100 KPH.

    As a shooter, I, like many others, like to be able to shoot fast and accurately. The modern guns available today in the world are hardly any better than those developed in WW 2. The technology is old. The genie can't be put back in the bottle. The gun control elites and safety Nazis can demand that guns can fire only so many rounds and be of such & design. But criminals, terrorists, and others can get illegal modern guns, just like they can all the illegal narcotics that come into AUS, the UK, Paris and so on. And the demographics of Mexico are far more similar to the US than in Australia.

    Finally, even though I don't have a machine gun, I do feel that we Americans have the right to own the same standard rifles pistols and shotguns that the military and police use. What was the standard in 1776 should be the same in 2017. I do not see the police, politicians, Hollywood stars and active duty military as being some sort of Gods or superior beings. My life is just as worthy and dear as theirs. I believe in equal rights, not extra rights for honest citizens.
     
  4. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    With this logic, you'd probably like to own a grenade launcher as well...:deadhorse:
     
  5. Jim Nash

    Jim Nash Well-Known Member

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    Ditto English.


    LOL. No it isn't. Crucially, you allowed relevant facts and statistics into the discussion. That's a no-no on this subject.
     
  6. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This was the wisdom of the founders, created by being learned in the nature of human beings and history. For if you do not fully understand and are aware of what we are, and our history as a species, the history of ruling elites and gov't, you might bend to the emotions of others, who are clueless.

    Of course it was not about hunting, for at that time, guns were needed to eat, to fight indians and to settle the wilderness. So that was unquestioned. That right was put there to protect a free people with a constitution from those that would want to take both away. So, it is wisdom based upon intelligence. The left believes they will never lose their gov't or freedom with rights. But these guys lack wisdom and have amnesia as to history. They unrealistically believe with religious like faith in the better side of human nature, rainbows and unicorn idealism. But never trust in a man's better side of human nature. For he may not have it. This is common sense wisdom, sorely lacking on the left. It is their Achilles Heel.
     
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  7. Jim Nash

    Jim Nash Well-Known Member

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    That's certainly a refreshingly honest answer. But why can't you all just say "cuz we like guns" and not deflect with all the usual bullshit excuses? I think the gun advocates would face less hostility if they owned up.
     
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  8. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    Warren Burger, a very wise CONSERVATIVE Supreme Court Justice disagreed with your interpretation:

    The Gun Lobby’s interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies – the militia – would be maintained for the defense of the state. The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.
     
  9. willburroughs

    willburroughs Well-Known Member

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    Has it even been determined that he was using fully auto in the shootings. If it was simply a bump/slide, then what do you do? Yes, you could ban bump stock mechanisms, but you do not even need them to get the same pseudo-automatic fire from a semi-auto weapon.
     
  10. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All of your beloved gun control ideas have been tried in one of our large Leftist cities in Chicago. There were 700+ murders there last year. The vast majority of them being done by thugs with illegal guns. Not a single Chicago thug has turned in any of their guns over the years because they were told to do it.

    http://heyjackass.com/

    You seem to be okay with thugs killing thousands a year in Mexico, and hundreds a year in Chicago. I believe your gun control ideas only work in civilized areas with civilized cultures and people.

    I would fix the far larger problem of gang and thug murders by hammering the gangsters and thugs with harsh punishments and speedy executions.
     
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  11. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He was wrong, the founders were right. And is not the first time a justice has been wrong. Lots of fools in the USSC over the years.
     
  12. willburroughs

    willburroughs Well-Known Member

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    My single shot, .22Mag from my grandfather might be safe for a while. Yay!
     
  13. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't really want or need a destructive device.

    What is your logic on guns. What limits would you want in your socialist paradise?

    Also, of the thousands of people who have legal machine guns, how many have committed crimes with them since 1934? Answer: 2.
    Of the thousands with their own private tanks, artillery, or rocket launchers, how many have committed crimes with them? Answer: Zero.
     
  14. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hunting isn't even mentioned in 2A.
     
  15. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is 100% wrong.
     
  16. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course gun owners like guns but the reasons for supporting the 2nd Amendment are more complex than that for me & I suspect many other gun owners.
    I think you would feel differently about gun ownership & the importance of being self sufficient if you lived in a high crime area.
    As the saying goes:
    "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away"
     
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  17. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The bump stock was declared legal under Obama's team as a regulatory decision, not a statutory law. Do some research. It would take no act of Congress to ban the bump stock nor was it legalized by Congress.

    The NRA supported restrictions on machine guns, but don't let facts disturb your ranting.

    Cowardice is found among the anti-gunners, not NRA members.
     
  18. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't believe your "2" number. You are quibbling with the verbage "machine guns" vs "automatic rifles" vs "any other semi-automatic garbage gun". I am not a Socialist, but an outraged citizen, who believes that you folks are out of control. Our founding fathers would roll over in their graves, if they could see the distortions of you and your NRA ilk.
     
  19. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Things are legal until declared illegal. Are you even an American? I see little evidence of it. NRA members are the ones who cling to their guns in a life of fear. It is cowardice not to be able to live without one's fetish. Guns are a boo-boo blanket for grown ups
     
  20. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. Neither was having a right to a gun to settle this vast continent. The founders knew guns were necessary for survival on the frontier, and for providing game to the people outside of towns and cities in that era. So the 2nd amendment is not about this. And yet people owned guns and they were necessary for the things I mentioned.
     
  21. GlobalCitizen

    GlobalCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I am down with any reforms that do not infringe on the right to bear arms.
     
  22. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Be careful!
    The anti-gun crowd can be quite creative so while you may still have the right to bear arms, you may suddenly find that you do not have the right to bear those arms unless they're locked in a safe or have some cumbersome trigger lock.
    Additionally, you may still be able to bear arms but find that ammunition is taxed to the point of $5- per round.
    Other examples abound.
     
  23. GlobalCitizen

    GlobalCitizen Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is clear to me. It is for situations in which the federal, state, or local governments cannot, fail, or need assistance to provide security to the community or region. In those cases, militias are to be called forth from the community or region. One can't organize a militia if the community has been disarmed.
     
  24. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here is the "Truth" you don't like about legally owned full-auto weapons:

    In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the BATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime [PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.)

    Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies. The other homicide, possibly involving a legally owned machine gun, occurred on September 14, 1992, also in Ohio.

    http://volokh.com/posts/1201017994.shtml

    Are you not outraged that 700 thugs are allowed to murder their fellow man in Chicago each year with only 12% every ever being brought to justice for them? How jacked-up is that???

    Our Founders would be rolling in their graves, if they saw how Leftist revolutionaries that hate America are being ignored by our Mainstream Media:
    [​IMG]

    Leftist terrorist and cop killer Stephen Paddock mouthing off to the police.
     
  25. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    No TRUTH about it. Your link talks about "Legal Guns". Typical gun rhetoric. You want guns easily accessible for all citizens, and then you deflect the responsibility when people acquire them illegally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

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