Demographic change in vaccinated people, and reasons to drop hesitancy

The LIES spewed by the RIGHT are KILLING people!

Would you agree with that?

 

Complete and utter BOVINE EXCREMENT!

 

That many deaths? The vaccine was given to people who were 85 years old, 90, people with cancer... the vaccine only protects against Covid-19, it doesn't protect people from dying from all sorts of causes such as cancer, heart attacks, etc. When you give 390 freaking million doses of vaccines, necessarily you'll give it to someone who is about to die of something else. There is no freaking indication whatsoever that these 8,164 deaths were CAUSED by the vaccines. We've had a handful of real deaths caused by the vaccines, mostly the thrombotic thrombocytopenic syndromes (cerebral venous sinus thrombosis or CVST) very very rarely caused by the J&J vaccine (not by the mRNA ones) and mostly by the AstraZeneca which we don't even have here.

People need to freaking start understanding that correlation is not causation.

The vaccine is given to Mr. Jones, a 90-year-old with terminal cancer who has a few weeks left to live. Still, his family doesn't want him to catch Covid and die alone in isolation so they ask the doctors to give him the vaccine. They give it to him. A few weeks later as expected he dies of cancer. Given that the VAERS freaking REQUIRES that any death by any cause in vaccinated people be reported to them, the doctor reports it.

Anti-vaxxers: OH MY GOD THE VACCINE IS SUCH A KILLER LOOK AT HOW IT KILLED MR. JONES! HE TOOK THE VACCINE AND A FEW WEEKS LATER HE DIED!!! OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, THE SKY IS FALLING!!! RUN FOR THE HILLS, THE KILLING VACCINE WILL KILL US ALL!!!!

Give me a freaking break. This is so freaking ridiculous! It is SO frustrating that people can't see this, even thought it's said IN ALL FREAKING LETTERS right there together with the report: "FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."

What part of the above people don't understand???

It's been shown over and over that this rate of death, 8,164 deaths reported after 390 million doses given to 185 million people, is NOT above the usual and expected incidence of death in the same population (much the opposite; it's a fraction of it). Do you actually think that this is a high number? Are you aware of how many people die every year in the United States? Let's take a year before the pandemic: 2018; 2,840,000 people died. That's 7,780 deaths PER DAY!!!! (divide that total by 365). So, you give the vaccine to more than half the population, and you think that 8,164 deaths is a big deal??? Every day that you give the vaccine to someone, 7,780 people are expected to die, out of our population of 331 million people. You give the vaccine to 185 million people, or 55% of the population, and you'd expect NATURALLY that 7,780 x 55%, 4,279 deaths from all causes would occur in that same population regardless of the vaccine. PER DAY!!! So in 2 freaking days you have 8,558 expected deaths! And you're highly impressed with these 8,164 reports? LOL.

So, people keep dying, about 4,279 per day among the vaccinated, all the way through the first 30 days after the vaccination… so in one month, we have naturally expected deaths in that population, of 128,370 people. The majority of those, doctors won’t remember that they are supposed to tell the VAERS. OK, so 8,164 doctors goodie-two-shoes do report them to the VAERS… and the anti-vaxxers immediately conclude that the vaccines caused the deaths… sigh…

It’s interesting to notice that these are the same people who are fast to dismiss Covid-19 as the cause of death when the victim has the slightest co-morbid condition… but when it’s a death in a vaccinated population, oh yeah, it must have been the vaccine, not the diseases the person already had!!!

These 8,164 are merely correlated in time. REAL deaths caused by the vaccine, such as cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, are not more than a handful.

Shark attacks increase in the summer.
Ice cream consumption increases in the summer.
Oh, OK. Eating ice cream causes shark attacks. Right? Right?

Really? What's your evidence that the REAL deaths are not being talked about? How would you have known about the cases of CVST that did occur? Well, because it's been talked about; we published studies and guidelines about how to diagnose and how to treat these cases... NOBODY in the medico-scientific community including those scientists who work for the administration, is trying to hide these cases; better proof, studies are published about them, the CDC site has guidance about the syndrome, etc.

And are ALL the governments lying, worldwide?

Do you know how many doses of these vaccines have been given, worldwide, as we speak? The number keeps jumping up fast, but as I type this, 3,223,019,945.

3.2 freaking BILLION doses... Don't you think that major problems would have been diagnosed by now (like the few real ones have been, already)?

Where are all the hordes of people who are dropping dead from the vaccines right and left, or being changed into alligators, or growing camel hooves, or getting infertile or magnetic or having their DNA changed by the chips put there by Bill Gates and George Soros???

Sure, it must be that ALL governments on Earth are just lying to the people (despite the Germans, the Danes, the Brits, all commenting upon the real cases of CVST).

Oh no, it can't be that the vaccines, especially the mRNA ones, are freaking safe and effective! Oh no, they are ALLLLLL lying to us.

Right.

And pray tell, if our administration were interested in hiding adverse reactions, why in the hell would they have established the VAERS and made the reports public? Have you ever stopped to think about that???

Jesus, it really is frustrating to see so much ignorance, so much paranoia, and so much silly politicizing of such a simple thing: we have a deadly virus out there. We have vaccines that are extremely safe and very effective in preventing hospitalization and death. So, everybody should be running to get them, right? Oh no, people will prefer to listen to junk science and to manipulated presentation of data from anti-vaxxers.

200,000 deaths have happened in the United States among the unvaccinated, after the vaccines became widely available. Mostly, 200,000 preventable deaths.

But no, you latch onto these 8,164 reports made to VAERS.

Sigh...

 

I think authoritarian agenda pushed by Democrat is killing more people.

 

WITHOUT any FACTS your baseless OPINION lacks substance.

 

There is no reason to force those people who had COVID to get vaccinated
It is all about government control and authoritarian rule.

 

I have no interest in reading your manifestos, the post you responded to was really pretty simple. There is no concentrated research dedicated to damage caused by the vaccine. No pages of graphs with their pretty lines crossing pages like those used to condemn those who won't take the shots. You come back with an indication that it is only dangerous to people 80 to 90 years old who already are dying of cancer? Hasn't that argument already been used by the nonvax faction? You aren't being very original.

This is a valid question and it will NOT be adequately addressed if the information is damaging to the forced participation in government mandated preventative measures.

 

And their patience is wearing thin

 

Well, I can't really debate with you if you'll appeal to Too Long Didn't Read.
What you think I'm saying is not what I'm saying, but you wouldn't know because you didn't read it.
I'm not saying the vaccine is dangerous to 90-year-olds.
I'm saying deaths among the vaccinated 90-year-olds is NOT caused by the vaccines; big difference.
Actually the real risk of CVST is more among the people younger than 50. If anything the vaccine is LESS dangerous to the elderly and infirm and more dangerous to the young and healthy.
If you want to get informed and know the facts, read me. If you want to display low attention span and hide behind not reading what I'm telling you then I have no interest in debating with you.

And where in the hell am I defending government mandates? Again, if you were reading me, you'd know that I'm against those (with the possible exception of healthcare workers). Jesus, in my very OP in this very thread I said, mandates not necessary as people's reasons to drop hesitancy are different than complying with mandates.

PS - No research on serious adverse reactions from the vaccine??? There are dozens of studies on these since the pre-clinical, phase I, phase II, and phase III trials plus investigations by several agencies in the world of the reported serious events. If you don't have access to these, it's not my fault. But hey, they are several pages long, so I guess they won't be of any use to you.

 

Yep, that phrase alone is indication that vaccination has nothing to do with health care, but used as a tool to gain more power.

 

Researchers are fighting the war, individuals you talk to here are fighting the skirmishes surrounding that war and there will always be a difference in the overall goal and the single battles that get us there. Skirmishes are situational.

Condense your information to it's point or points and you will reach more people. Your arguments are targeted at your peers but you are trying to convince the great unwashed.

 

Yes, over 8000 have died from the vaccine while only .2% have died from the virus itself.

 

Which lies are you talking about? I would have to decide on a case by case basis.

 

Complete and utter BOVINE EXCREMENT!

 

Look, I do condense and simplify at various points. Some people here have praised me specifically for this: for making science more accessible. But maybe it was my bad to overestimate you. I gave you credit and continued the debate, thinking of you as an intelligent individual who would be able to absorb more information.

It's deeply disappointing that you then seem to resort to TLDR and you misquote me so badly after not reading (or not reading attentively) what I posted; how in the hell did you interpret what I was saying, as saying that the vaccine is dangerous to 90-year-olds with cancer??? And how in the hell did you interpret my posts as supporting mandates when the VERY Original Post of this VERY thread says, mandates unnecessary as people's hesitancy is dropping for reasons other than obeying mandates???

Again, since I added this after your response: No research on serious adverse reactions from the vaccine??? There are dozens of studies on these since the pre-clinical, phase I, phase II, and phase III trials plus investigations by several agencies in the world of the reported serious events, and published / public guidelines for doctors on how to handle them. If you don't have access to these, it's not my fault. But hey, they are several pages long, so I guess they won't be of any use to you.

But in my thread State of the Vaccines I've addressed in simple, lay-men terms, with easy analogies, several of the serious adverse reactions.

So, regarding mandates, look at this, from my OP:

"I'm not a fan of mandates and it does seem like people are getting vaccinated NOT because of mandates, making them fairly unnecessary:

~snip

Like I always said, an educational campaign to debunk vaccine myths and misinformation would be more likely to get people to accept the vaccine, than aggravating and outraging them with mandates. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Is this simple enough for ya? What part of the above you didn't understand???

Yep, I guess I overestimated you. My bad. Carry on. Read just the short and simple posts. You can place me on Ignore now, because sometimes my posts ARE long and complex. A few posters here do appreciate them. I guess I'll keep talking to them.

 

Good grief!

 

Have a nice and long life. Stay safe. Take care. Over and out, as far as you're concerned.

 

Your gasp of the relevant subject matter leaves a great deal to be desired, unfortunately.

 

If something is forced on general public without justification it is definition of authoritarianism.
Neither you or the government can clearly explain why unnecessary immune system stimulation is necessary.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3094965/
While T cell-based vaccines have the potential to provide protection against chronic virus infections, they also have the potential to generate immunopathology following subsequent virus infection.

 

Its amazing that you call Doctors ( or nurses ) who follow Federal law as "goodie-two-shoes", nevermind that you label 2.6 average Cordmorbities ( per the CDC) as slightest co-morbid condition.

Now i know you have me blocked for making logical and yes fact based replies to your bullshit.. This is for those with an open mind that are actually trying to find the truth.

 

Thank you for CONFIRMING that you lack the relevant subject matter knowledge to engage in a meaningful debate on this topic as far as I am concerned.

https://www.immunology.org/coronavi...rces/covid-immunity-natural-infection-vaccine

 

In other words, natural immunity works well enough.
Reinfection with vaccine more then possible as well.
There is absolutely at this point impossible to predict how vaccines will work in future.
So far, number of cases correlates with number of deaths the same way as we saw it in previous two spikes.

If vaccine really help then we should see ratio between number of deaths and number of cases to be significantly lower. It is not the case.

THere is zero justifications why people should surrender to the authoritarians.

 

What agenda are people trying to force by encouraging people to get vaccinated?

Do you believe that the government wants to murder the sheep, leaving only Alex Jones types?

The anti-vax crap is complete nonsense, and people participating in it are terrible human beings.

 

Over 8000 people have died and tens of thousands have had severe adverse reactions to the vaccines, according to the CDC. The left don't care about that in their push to get everyone vaccinated.