Egyptian army slaughters protestors

Caught on camera Ikhwani in white galabeya shoots dead a boy in front of him as he passes army vehicle then hands gun to accomplice as they try to blame soldiers for it

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don't forget their partner Saudia

 

That is a partially correct.

But are all Egyptians responsible? Or just the Allah-Akhbar crazies that like to throw kids off of buildings and cut throats?

And if we are talking about responsibility, we have to include ourselves because we are involved in the situation, and our track record is guiltily awful and ugly.

 

Cuts through the chase.. The U.S doesn't give a shiit about democracy or freedom... as long as as you can keep your livestock inline and moving in the right direction.

 

Al Beltagy one of top Ikhwan statement:

"terrorism in Sinai will stop immediately as soon as you re instate Morsi! "

 

public beheading... this will help calm things down and hopefully establish rule of law...

 

Ikhwan's Beltagy

"Sinai terrorism will stop in 1 hour if Morsi is released!"

US and Israel refuse to allow Egypts military to cover Sinai keep that in mind

 

Sure, we've been handing money to them since Israel and Egypt signed the Camp David Peace Accords. But we were essentially rewarding Egypt for playing nice with Israel and were a signatory to that accord.

What I'm seeing here are people taking that fact and running with it to the point that every nasty thing happening there is the US's fault because we were paying off Egypt for signing a treaty. Well, I'm sorry to say that the nutjobs throwing kids off buildings aren't on the US Payroll. They're just criminals using the chaos to do what they've always wanted to do anyway and now can completely justify doing. And the best part is, they can turn around and blame someone else for it. Even better, others will swallow it because it absolves them and their own from any kind of responsibility whatsoever.

Are ALl Egyptians responsible? Only in the same sense that people on PF blame ALL Americans for everything. Heck, we have a poster here that does nothing BUT blame ALL Americans for anything - or as he calls them, "American degenerates."

In any event, congratulations Egypt. You've become a nation of teenagers.

 

What, did we read a Koran to the Black Stone Idolaters?

 

I think that Abu mighty agree w me -no not in the middle of a civil war as this is a clash between one entity - the MB against the rest of Egyptians. It is a war of ideology in my opinion. The MB only cares about the agenda of the MB so I am not really sure if they even identify themselves as Egyptians to tell you the truth.
I suspect that we will soon see some foreign fighters mixed into this mess.

 

The US responsibility lies not in the Camp David deal; But in the US/UK/Israeli/Saudi gang that formented the "Arab Spring" not much differently than their "Orange Revolution" in Ukraine. If the USA were not supporting Allah-Akhbar crazies, they wouldn't dare do the stuff they are doing.

The USA has supported Allah-AKhbar killers in Afghanistan, Chechnia, Somalia, Libya and now in Syria and Egypt. This has been going on since the 1980's in some places.

Guess who gets the angriest about Syrian destroying the "Muslim" Brotherhood cutthroats in Syria, the Israeli types.

 

So now it's the US's fault? Plus, wouldn't the money go through the government who runs the military?

Where has Western governments said they support the killing of civilians?

When did he say this?

So now it's GW's fault?

The autrocities have nothing to do with Iraq nor was the US responsible for every death in Iraq as many of them can be attributed to insurgents and terrorist groups.

So if I buy someone a car and they go and cause a crash, it's my fault?

Proof? Evidence? Link?

So now the Egyptian military can control what gets released?

 

Lemee bottom-line it for you. It's impossible for it to be the Egyptians fault. They are mere mindless puppets of their American and Israeli masters. Because, let's face it - if the Usual Suspects even had a smidgen of introspective thought where they admitted that mmmmmaybe their problems were at least partly their fault, they might have to do something about it - possibly even accept responsibility for their share. And they can't do that; the pain is too much to bear. It's best to just let them blame anyone else, everyone else - until they grow up.

 

As someone was saying on the news tonight - it does not matter who or what prevails. All opinions in Egypt are anti US. You don't think your foreign policy might have something to do with that?

 

I think it has a great deal to do with it, sure. You won't find me saying there's a whole lot about US foreign policy that made sense for awhile now - and anything we did do that WAS correct was likely accidental. But that wasn't my point, which was that Egyptians bear the huge majority of responsibility of what's going on in their own yard. Anyone trying to divert blame away from them is engaging in deflection because it would be too painful for people to admit they screwed up. Because, much like a teenager, the more you deflect blame elsewhere, the less accountability you need to take of yourself.

Also, if the Egyptians blame Our Glorious Messiah, they'd better prepare for being called bigots. Because that's what Obama's drones do. Forewarned and all.

 

This killing of someone in order to blame others is so typical of that part of the world. The West never ceases to fall for it because it is so culturally alien to them.

Saudi Arabia backs the rebels in Syria, but the army in Egypt. I guess the Brotherhood being in charge is a threat to the monarchy?

 

In any event, it looks like the US may no longer Pay-Pal Egypt that billion-plus anymore.

 

Of course Egypt turned on Daddy . He should have been more strict.

 

Violence breeds violence.

 

OK

Not so sure I agree with you. I think the MB blaming the US for it's position is as you described above.

However I am not so sure about Abu's blaming the Saudi's and Qatar and I would think the US behind them. What seemed to have changed his position was when Morsi brought back it's ambassador from Syria, told Egyptians they could go and fight there followed by a maniac telling the Egyptians it was 'gods will' they go and fight and die there and concern over sectarianism.

Salafism is not native to Egypt. He claims it has got to the uneducated through Saudi broadcasts. I think there is something of significance there.

Now as to who 'caused' the situation. Bit difficult to tell. At the end I would say the buck has to stop with the army, but that may be my ignorance. Seems the MB were willing to give up just about everything but not to resign. That was not enough.

I also think it is interesting that the Salafi's agreed to what the army did but have now pulled away - possibly wanted MB out to get more radical things going.

I think it is often very difficult to know what is going on when it is going on and all avenues of possible reason need to be explored.

Tell me your not a CZ!!!!!

I read the fact that there is soo much anti american feeling in the US as a possible signal that her time of influence is drawing to a close and hopefully for your own security people will be working to stop the murder with drones.
You cannot just keep on killing unless you are wanting Armageddon. Eventually people will stand up to you.

 

I usually take Abu's claims with a grain of salt, but there is a moderate possibility of this claim being the case. The problem is the leaps of logic made afterwards, such as that since it came from the Sauds and the US is relatively close to the Sauds, therefore the US had a hand in getting the Sauds to broadcast Salefism to Egypt. Sorry, but I just don't buy it. Not even Our Magnificent King is that idiotic. Mostly.

You know, maybe the problem wasn't Saudi Arabia trying to influence things over in Egypt. Maybe the problem isn't with AIPAC ruling the world. Maybe - just maaaaaybe - Egypt is responsible for it's own mess. Maybe Egyptians are responsible for how they react to this crisis. Maybe Egyptians have brains and are able to act on their own as individuals and are free to act based on their own differing worldviews and opinions, and act out on them. Maybe many of them are acting violently because that's how they choose TO act. Maybe they're not the unthinking puppets their "defenders" make them out to be. Maybe they have such a thing as free will. Maybe they're doing what they want, messy as it is and whatever influence other countries are trying to put on the situation isn't amounting to as much as other people think it is.

Because that's the really nasty truth that some people would rather not think about. When you look at what Egypt is going thru, it's a lot easier to blame others than the Egyptians. And a part of me doesn't blame these posters at all; the poster who yells at the US for "orchestrating" the whole thing is doing so because he can't bear the fact that maybe the Egyptians are screwed up on their own in this case, and it's too much to face that reality. Well, I can face the reality that the US has done some pretty screwed up things in it's time, sadly we have a number of - well, let's call them "Islamic-based posters" and leave it at that - who would sooner chew off their hands than admit that a muslim country screwed up. Heck, you see it here all the time. "Why, the US did it because AIPAC made them!" "Syria is doomed because of AIPAC!" "We don't have Twinkees because of AIPAC!" And we have three or four posters that - well, that's ALL they say. Gimme a break. We do what we do and did what we did because we want to do what we want to do. It's that simple. And it's pretty much the same everywhere and with every country. Even in Egypt. Stop blaming a PAC for decisions. Blame the people making them. Stop blaming the Sauds or the US or Santa Claus for the civil war in Egypt - and blame Egypt. Stop looking for outside sources when the people INSIDE Egypt know full well what they're doing and why they're doing it. Because otherwise you're basically calling each and every Egyptian citizen mere mindless tools and puppets. [/rant]

And by the way, that rant wasn't aimed at you, more like some of the nutjobs here who would rather blame a nebulous conspiracy for their own problems rather than themselves.

I looked up CZ and all I got was "Czech Republic"

You're misreading it although it is there - but that's a topic for another day.

 

Violence does breed violence -- unless you're Genghis Khan. He conquered the Islamist and could have ruled all of east Europe:

"All who surrender will be spared; whoever does not surrender but opposed with struggle and dissension, shall be annihilated."

Total complete annihilation is what is needed if you want to prevent "Violence breeds violence" scenario. Oh, Genghis Khan died peacefully surround by his friends and family.

 

(*)(*)(*)(*)ing animals! the army should call martial law and stop these murders! I cant understand this lvl of voilence over politics, ppl are out to kill and they do so like a walk in the park, and its against their own brothers! I really cant understand that.

 

so what do you mean by this 1?

Let's not forget that the ambitions of these rats has stripped us of our privacy and sullied the morals of our cultures and our countries.

sorry but theocrats are oppressive by default

 

I haven't seen him saying that.

The Egyptian people do not have a history of freedom of choice over how they are ruled so who is Egypt? I think that is simplistic. There are a number of things which have created the situation, some from within, some from without but given that you have a people with no real history of choosing their way, to suggest the people are responsible for all the dynamics seems like a cop out.

It is impossible to discuss anything if it is not discussed and instead a blanket statement which has no relevance is given and all the people blamed without even looking at the situation. It has no meaning and reeks of prejudice. The situation in Egypt seems very complicated to me and if you actually know all the dynamics and how everyone else within this traumatic situation is capable of even knowing what is going on, let alone able to have enough knowledge to make the best decision then I guess you have the knowledge of 'god'.

well I have not been arguing this.....but to some extent the things I have been discovering in the last month nothing would surprise me!!! That does not however seem rational to me as the US was wanting I imagine, Egypt to be in favour of outside war against Syria - I know Israelis on another forum wanted this. Hence Egypt has broken away from this. I think and hope because it does not want to be a fanatical country. This is not in the US or Saudi interests. Hence it would make sense that they at the very least liked the calls for violence and jihad now whether they are doing anything about it or not I cannot say, but the Saudi's on the ground could very definitely be. The US I imagine is feeling wtf and seems to have come to the conclusion that in Syria the FSA must first of all get rid of the extremists which they cannot do. Again I am seeing the US losing influence but what might be taking it over I do not like and if you believe that that is why they people who collected the signatures which resulted in Morsi being deposed acted so, I would suggest you could not be more wrong.

I don't know who or what you are talking about.

Our democracies are only in name. Egypt apparently has a division between people who want a genuine democracy and people who want an islamist state. A lot of the people who voted for the islamist state are uneducated and voted for Morsi and the MB because for years they have provided them every two weeks baskets of food which they really needed and offered a good meal if they went to vote. Now feeding the hungry is obviously a good thing but that does not mean the people want or understand that they are voting for an islamist state - Sufis voting for the Salafis for example. No every country is not the same. We all have our different histories. The ME has known oppression for a long time. They need time to sort things out. I have not yet even been able to come to my decision as to why this was done - the coup - but what we do know is that it had the agreement of all the political parties except the MB. No one knows the future Stuart.

Who are they? My search said Public Accounts Committee. What do PAC do that you are claiming I blame them for decisions when I have not even heard of them?

Yes, stop looking. Like censorship much. (see below)

Bit late now, my heckles have got riled!!!! However I think something more in the middle might be a better place. I am interested in what is going on. Within it all there seems to be something very good in Egypt and my hopes are that it can get a breath of air.

I meant Christian Zionist. I know you are a Christian. Came from my misreading of what you said.

(I am going to sleep now)

 

I have a lot of sympathy with that position. From the outset, I strongly suspected that it would end up in a mess. The truth is, following the overthrowing of Mubarek, there was no clear alternative political programme in place.. It's very well insisting that the despotism of Mubarek be replaced with something else, but it's another thing to have a clear ideological alternative with which to replace him with. For me, the lack of a clear alternative has been a major stumbling block with this revolution. I think Egypt will slip into civil war.